Cub Cadet Model 123 Suction Tube and Leak

[chadwick404]

Hi everyone, I recently replace my 123's suction tube. The original tube was one piece and circled up above the tranny. The replacement I used was two pieces with three fittings (one to couple and the other two to insert and affix to the transmission).

The original tube collapsed on me as I was try to prevent it from leaking. I could see the leak was at the bottom fitting, and did not know the tube was so delicate - so, I had to replace it.

To my knowledge there was no other leak on the transmission - not one drop...

And, of course, now....I have a good leak and cannot figure out where its coming from - and am so very hopeful its something simple...

After I replaced the suction tube, I also replaced the filter and fluid. The filter was tightened by hand, as tight as I could get it, and I do not see it leaking anywhere.

After I added fluid, I drove the tractor for about 5 minutes, then added some more fluid. I used a funnel with a small taper end, and know I added fluid above the plug hole (at least a small amount).

Is there a breather at the top somewhere allowing too much added fluid out?

Or have I messed up something else? It did sit without fluid in it for a few weeks until I could get to the repairs - did I dry out a gasket? I am pretty dismayed here - any help from anyone is much appreciated...

[J-Mech]

Yes there is a vent. No it is not leaking. Oil is far from it.

How about a pic of this said tube you used. Sounds like one of the too many fittings in it is leaking.
The 123 is supposed to have a tube on it that swings up and then back down. What you describe sounds homemade to me, and likely the source of the leak.

FWIW, the original tube is made pretty heavy. I'd say your was damaged likely from it having water in the rear end and it rotting out.

[chadwick404]

Hi J-Mech - thanks for the reply. I'll post a pic soon, and yes it does have too many fittings - but it is actually a CC OEM specific replacement part for the older style suction tube. The older style circled above the transmission to cool better, but it was a fairly light gauge material. The replacement tube is much thicker, does not circle up top side and has three fittings - none of which are leaking (as of last night anyways).

I think it was the relief valves actually. The tractor has been sitting for too long - I had the relief valve lever engaged, and when looking for the leak I released it...I decided to try to push the tractor and behold it moved easily - too easily. So the relief valve was stuck "open".

I ran the tractor for about half an hour to mow a bit, and when I turned it off I could not push the tractor again - so the valve "unstuck" itself. I am hoping it stays that way.

Still not sure if that was the culprit yet - will know later today or this weekend if I see a puddle or not.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Yes there is a vent. No it is not leaking. Oil is far from it.

How about a pic of this said tube you used. Sounds like one of the too many fittings in it is leaking.
The 123 is supposed to have a tube on it that swings up and then back down. What you describe sounds homemade to me, and likely the source of the leak.

FWIW, the original tube is made pretty heavy. I'd say your was damaged likely from it having water in the rear end and it rotting out.

[chadwick404]

Well, there is still a leak, although it appears to be only on one side - hard to tell since I did not know how long it leaked to begin with.

Will those valves at top merely seep or can they spew oil? Are they under pressure?

[ironman]

Chad, I would like to add my input to address your problem. My input is meant to help you, and you alone, and not meant to dispute, disagree, or in any way pi$$ in any other poster's opinionated cornfield. Call it my disclaimer if you will, and I'm sorry that it has to be this way but anyway, here goes.....

Yes, the relief valves on top are under pressure while the engine/hydro is turning. If you push them down, they will usually stay down until, under hydraulic pressure, (hydro turning) they pop back up. Can they leak? Answer is YES. Do they spew fluid? Answer is, maybe not spew, but more likely to ooze, even after shut down. So, could this have been your original leak?? Maybe yes, maybe no!

The suction tube parts you have put in are good factory replacements so if you have faith that there is no leak in those connections then if it were me I'd have to assume your leak is the relief valves or cork gasket.

You never really told us how bad the leak was to begin with, and is it better or worse now after the new tubes? It sucks that you have a narrow frame and cant take off a tunnel cover to see what's going on from above, but that's a nice looking machine. I've read posts about spraying powder on everything to try to trace the leak. I've never had to do that but do what ya gotta do. I probably didn't help much but, Good Luck!

[J-Mech]

Well, thank you for your explanation of what the tube is and why it was made that way..... but I already knew all that. I still disagree that the original tube was "light duty".

Yes, the relief valves are under pressure, when it is running. Not much pressure. A few hundred pounds. Charge pump pressure on a non-hydraulic lift machine should be around 150#.
The whole deal with it rolling after it had been sitting and after you released the valves.... that's normal. They can't stick open and the hydro function. If it was stuck, it wouldn't have moved with the machine running... so no. It wasn't stuck open.

Can they leak.. yes. Can they spray.... yes. Not usually the manual relief valves though. Usually the automatic type are the ones that spray.

Looking at the pic of the leak under your machine, I'd say you have a seal leak on the right side swashplate shaft. If it was the relief valves, it would be leaking all over the place, and running down and dripping in the middle. Looks like you will need to pull the rear if you want it fixed.

[chadwick404]

Hi, thanks for the reply. The only leak I could discern was the original suction tube; I did not see any other source when I attempted to tighten the tube, using rags and flashlight. I did see it was leaking slightly at the bottom fitting which is where I torqued and subsequently "tore asunder" the tube...sigh...

Now, I suspect its one of the valves on top leaking - will I need to monitor the fluid level until I make time (and energy) to get it fixed or will it subside, possibly?

The new tube seems fine - no leaks at all - nor does the new filter have a leak. I did not do the rebuild on the tractor so do not know if the cork gasket was replaced - I suspect not...

Basically, how long can I go this way until I must tear it apart? I have plenty of cardboard...

Originally Posted by ironman

Chad, I would like to add my input to address your problem. My input is meant to help you, and you alone, and not meant to dispute, disagree, or in any way pi$$ in any other poster's opinionated cornfield. Call it my disclaimer if you will, and I'm sorry that it has to be this way but anyway, here goes.....

Yes, the relief valves on top are under pressure while the engine/hydro is turning. If you push them down, they will usually stay down until, under hydraulic pressure, (hydro turning) they pop back up. Can they leak? Answer is YES. Do they spew fluid? Answer is, maybe not spew, but more likely to ooze, even after shut down. So, could this have been your original leak?? Maybe yes, maybe no!

The suction tube parts you have put in are good factory replacements so if you have faith that there is no leak in those connections then if it were me I'd have to assume your leak is the relief valves or cork gasket.

You never really told us how bad the leak was to begin with, and is it better or worse now after the new tubes? It sucks that you have a narrow frame and cant take off a tunnel cover to see what's going on from above, but that's a nice looking machine. I've read posts about spraying powder on everything to try to trace the leak. I've never had to do that but do what ya gotta do. I probably didn't help much but, Good Luck!

[chadwick404]

I am hopeful that will not be the case - or at least for a long while...but you may be right.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Well, thank you for your explanation of what the tube is and why it was made that way..... but I already knew all that. I still disagree that the original tube was "light duty".

Yes, the relief valves are under pressure, when it is running. Not much pressure. A few hundred pounds. Charge pump pressure on a non-hydraulic lift machine should be around 150#.
The whole deal with it rolling after it had been sitting and after you released the valves.... that's normal. They can't stick open and the hydro function. If it was stuck, it wouldn't have moved with the machine running... so no. It wasn't stuck open.

Can they leak.. yes. Can they spray.... yes. Not usually the manual relief valves though. Usually the automatic type are the ones that spray.

Looking at the pic of the leak under your machine, I'd say you have a seal leak on the right side swashplate shaft. If it was the relief valves, it would be leaking all over the place, and running down and dripping in the middle. Looks like you will need to pull the rear if you want it fixed.

[J-Mech]

It can leak as long as you want to buy oil. That's not even what I would call a leak. I'd call it a seep. A leak drips constantly while running. Doesn't hurt it to leak some, as long as it doesn't get low on oil.