1650 Starter Issues?

tostir · #1 01-23-2010, 08:02 PM

I have a 1650 that I attempted to start this morning after it had been sitting for a few months. Temp here was about 17 degrees. When I turned the key, the starter slowly tried to turn the engine over, and then nothing. I turned the key to the off position, the tried again, same thing. After the third time, the bendix gear moved over towards the flywheel, and then stopped, it would not return towards the starter. I let the tractor sit for a while, and tried again, nothing. I was able to get the bendix to move back, and tried again. It moves towards the flywheel, stops, and then I hear a whirring sound. From what I can see, it looks like the shaft is just spinning in the bendix. I took the starter off, and can see no obvious problems, and can move the bendix freely in either direction. I checked the battery voltage, and noticed it was between 10 and 11 volts. Could the cold and lack of strong charge be what caused the engine not to want to turn over? Also what would cause the issues with the starter?

Thanks for any advice.

ol'George · #2 01-23-2010, 08:11 PM

First, Welcome to OCC

!
I think you have a low battery, as anything that low a reading, is considered a dead battery.
I'd say charge the battery and try that.
Do not use a large battery charger on a small battery.
It will ruin it in short order.
also, you can jump it from another vehicle, being careful to connect positive to positive neg to neg.
lets us know what you find out.

aagitch · #3 01-23-2010, 09:40 PM

I agree you battery could have a low charge. Also, you may need to clean your starter at the worm gear and apply some new dry lube. Being dirty and combined with the cold may not be helping much. I was having the same problem with my 782 in the cold weather. I did the above to the starter and now it works great. Make sure your ground connections are rust free and tight.

Yosemite Sam · #4 01-24-2010, 03:07 AM

I agree with the guys, even a little oil or grease on the starter shaft can/will gum it up and keep it from working properly.

The dead battery isn't helping anything either. Clean the shaft, gear & spring, put a little dry lube on it and charge er up.

tostir · #5 01-24-2010, 06:39 AM

Thanks for all of the quick responses guys. I'll give it a try and let you know how it works out. That is as soon as I get a new anti drift spring, as I also found the current one to be broken. Have it ordered, should be here this week.

Thanks again

R Bedell · #6 01-24-2010, 07:36 AM

In addition, this is found in our Technical Library Section......Battery

In cold weather, it is imperative, that the Battery is a maximum capacity. It certainly don't hurt to give them a little charge up prior to starting the tractor.

MBounds · #7 01-24-2010, 09:09 AM

And not to mention that the Battery-under-the-seat Models have that ground problem!!!.... Move the chassis ground point away from the fender pan connection IH used. You'lll need a clean, good metal to metal contact...

Myron B

tostir · #8 01-24-2010, 10:35 AM

Myron, Can you explain, or point me to some information on the ground problem? I was not aware of this.

MBounds · #9 01-24-2010, 01:19 PM

Tostir:

IH attached the negative (-) battery terminal cable to the chassis at the nearest point possible (cheaper cable) which includes the fender pan. Unfortunatley, after 35+ years, corrosion sets in and causes so much resistance at this point that the ground half of the electrical circuit will not pass sufficient amperage to activate the starter and often the other electrical elements.

So, go to your nearest Automotive Supply Store (Auto Zone, Napa, etc.) and purchase a 4 gauge black Starter Cable at least 12" in length. Then take some sandpaper and clean an area to the bare metal around that unused hole in the chassis frame about 2-3" towards the rear of the tractor between the fender pan bolts. Apply some dielectric grease and bolt the new cable to the chassis frame at that point. Now there will be no resistance to the frame. Then, of course, reattach the cable to the Neg(-) terminal of the battery.

Now go to the right front side of the tractor and make sure that the OEM frame to engine ground cable is (1) in place and (2) has good clean connections. Let me know if it's missing and we'll deal with that separately. Now there will be a good ground half of the starter circuit from the Neg (-) battery terminal to the engine block (incl the starter). The front Frame-to-Engine ground cable is required because the rubber cushioned Iso-Bar engine mounts do not provide good electrical contact.

You may be amazed at the improvement in the electrical performance of your QL Cub Cadet.

For those with 1x8/9 series Cub Cadets, the same applies but you also need to run a separate 14 Gauge wire from the grounded leg of the Voltage Regulator to the negative terminal of the Battery. This is not original but is an upgrade needed because of the same fenderpan resistance isolation of the V/R.

Myron B

Rhoderman · #10 01-24-2010, 02:37 PM

10 volts is usually an indication you have one dead cell in your battery.

Please beware you might put yourself in danger if you try to charge it with a charger.

Once, I had an old pickup. It sat through the winter and I wanted to start it in the spring. Of course the battery was dead, probably radio memory drain or just cold related.

I grabbed my trusty charger, ran an extension cord out to the truck, and connected it up. I selected the 2A (not 6A) charge setting since I had plenty of time and left it sit for a day.

I checked on it after a day, and something smelled very hot! That was the charger. Then, I looked at the battery, and it was swelled out big time! I retreated quickly and unplugged the charger from inside the shop and let it sit for a few hours in case it was venting hydrogen gas.

When I measured the voltage, it was at 10V, indicating a shorted cell. The charger didn't know, and kept on trying to feed it the full 13 or 14 volts like it was designed, but at much more amperage apparently.

Please monitor your charger, and since you have a volt meter, measure it to be sure it's taking a charge. The best way I've found is to take the charger off, spin the starter for a few seconds, and then measure the voltage. If it's still 12.5 or more, your battery doesn't have a dead cell. Down around 10 or 11, and you probably need to buy a new battery.

I hope someone learns from this and applies it. Exploding batteries will wreck your whole day, and maybe other things as well...

Jim