Drive Line Clutch question - Page 4

finsruskw · #31 04-07-2017, 12:56 PM

None were barrel shaped.
His instructions and diagrams suck!
I had to e mail him twice to get it through his head what I was asking and he never did answer one of my questions.

J-Mech · #32 04-07-2017, 01:44 PM

That's because he's a parts salesman, not a mechanic. What did you need to know that you couldn't figure out?

I've not had any issues when I bought kits from him. NONE.

finsruskw · #33 04-07-2017, 04:54 PM

Clarification on the center ring installation.

twoton · #34 04-07-2017, 05:32 PM

This is what came with the last kit I got from him;

dodge trucker · #35 04-07-2017, 07:25 PM

JMech; I am not disputing your advice at all. Not one bit. I haven't done 200 small engine rebuilds, if I had to guess I'd have to say~40-50. plus probably a dozen car-truck engines.
and I live in Kankakee, which has become a automotive machine shop desert in recent years. I am dealing with a guy in Kentland IN, I work in Watseka, and Kentland is ~15 miles from work. The next closest machine shop (whom I have also dealt with but never on a small engine) is 55 miles from work, 18 miles from home. I cannot do business with them without taking time off of work due to the distance. There used to be a couple up near where I grew up, 30 miles north of where I live. No more. The next one that I know of is in Rantoul, which is ~60 miles from home and ~50 miles from work.
Not saying that I picked this guy to do this engine solely based on location, but it definitely was a consideration in the decision to give him a try. from what guys at work say, he has been in business a long time, and has a shop full of car engines in various stages, engine machine work is all they do.

I don't know if I said this before but I took that block in with full intention of having it bored and the crank cut!!! I was actually quite surprised when I got the news that I did about it.... I had my mind set on a bore job.... so your statement about being convinced that standard is the way to go.... isn't quite true.
I (was) convinced the other way!!!! that being because every other Kohler I have ever done, has had to be bored out. but as I had said, I am trying this machine shop out, sometimes that is the only way to see for sure how good they are.... if this ends up being an oil burner then I won't be going back....
I will say this; my last 3 engine rebuilds were Jeep 4.0, Dodge 5.9 (360 cu in) Magnum, and an older carb'd 360. In all 3 cases, I asked for the minimum overbore that would clean up the blocks, and parts were readily available for, which for all 3 of those engines, works out to 0.020. The machine shop I used for those (the one 55 miles from work) refused to even try to bore any of them out less than 0.030, regardless of what the blocks actually needed! I don't like that kind of service either. If they had some legitimate reason ( like 0.020 wasn't enough to clean up the bores) then I would not have had an issue with what they did. but I like the most cylinder wall thickness possible, along with leaving more room for possible future needs.

I have absolutely no problem doing anything that is needed; and I have been accused of replacing parts on my own vehicles and equipment prematurely, in the interest of maintenance and preventing breakdowns/ I treat my own a little different than I would if spending someone else's money the one thing that pi$$e$ me off more than almost anything else, is a re-do of a job that I recently did....
I was just at the machine shop where this block is at, and he did resurface the block's head surface, but only needed 0.005". Not a terrible amount. and the exhaust valve that he said was bad, is/ that certainly would not have cleaned up. and he even said that getting parts thru his source would probably be a little "salty" and if I wanted to find parts he had no issue with that.... I did leave him the head to check that out for possibly needing the same thing.

dodge trucker · #36 04-07-2017, 07:32 PM

on another note, my son went to school for machine tool, and is currently considering going back to school for automotive machine work, he definitely has had alot of under hood and under car time hanging around me and also his uncles, and his buddies who own a diesel shop, (that has been in their family for a few generations) who are looking into buying the tooling and machines out of the most recent machine shop whose last partner just retired for good this past Christmas... if he does go back to school and they do decide to reopen that last local machine shop, he will be busy with "government" work, to be sure!

finsruskw · #37 04-07-2017, 08:32 PM

Mine should have looked like that.

dodge trucker · #38 04-07-2017, 10:08 PM

Fins; your what, should have looked like what?

and a quick update; something I have seen before, is now hard to find and in this case just what the Dr ordered for this build; an NOS Kohler 0.003" piston. The machinist said that my block is "officially" 0.003 over, with a claimed tolerance of 0.0035" over, allowed to stay with a standard piston-- I do need to check on that-- ("next time it will need bored" in the words of the machine shop) I looked on FeeBay and happened to find one for this engine when I got home, for what I think is a really good deal.... listed for $45 I made an offer of $35 and we split it... so $40 for an original Kohler piston, rings and wrist pin at 0.003" which should get me back to factory tolerance.... so many OEM pistons for 4x that listed on the Bay, so I think I did OK..... hope so anyways. part number 47-874-07s
The last one (actually a Magnum version) I asked if that would work and on that build the answer was "no", I never posed the question on this engine....

J-Mech · #39 04-07-2017, 10:26 PM

Just for clarity, I haven't done 200 small engine rebuilds. I've done around 200 engine rebuilds. I have no idea how many small engines, gas, diesel... no idea. I was going to give a list of all the different brands, but I won't.

I'm sure the exhaust valve was shot. I seldom put old valves back in a Kohler. Not much margin on that small of a valve when new. I have ground them, especially on 7/8 HP motors because the valves aren't available in aftermarket, and the intake at least doesn't seem to wear too bad.

The head gasket would have took care of whatever was "low" on the block. If they only took off .005" then the distortion was less. They just got you for the price of a deck job.

Why would you take them the head? Hopefully they only use a belt planer on it and don't take the time to chuck it up in a head planer. I do them myself for no cost.

I dunno man. You keep saying that if this rebuild goes south that next time you won't use them. You've already given me enough info that I wouldn't use them one time.

If you do decide to run it with a standard bore, I want to know what the skirt clearance is when you reassemble it. I bet it's over .010".... and that's way too much. Not just by the book either.... When doing an overhaul, I like to get them down about .005"-.007". (Ran one at .004" and it is still running.) The newer pistons and oil seem to do fine with it. Clearances are a little tighter now than they were years ago. If they go up to .008" or above, I'm calling the shop wanting to know what happened. Remember, the Kohler manual was written long before we had the ability to make pistons out of the alloy's they now do. Even the "cheap stuff" is probably made out of a better alloy than the original was.

finsruskw:
If there is a chrome ring, it always goes on top.
If there are two identical rings, it doesn't matter which way they go.
If there is no chrome ring, look at the inside bevel and for a dot. Usually one or the other will have a dot. If one has a dot and one doesn't, blank ring on top.
If that doesn't cover it, ask on here. Better to ask here than to ask the guy who sold the parts, because 99 out of 100 times they don't know.

dodge trucker · #40 04-07-2017, 11:12 PM

J-mech, some good info for sure.... I know I need to get me some inside mikes, for sure. used to have some telescoping gages but gave them to my son as he needed a set for work.

on the deck job, I don't feel that bad, piece of mind, cheap insurance that all will seal good, letting them do that, may change when I get the bill ha ha.... and I have been meaning to take that head up to my Mom's house the last 3 times but keep forgetting to grab it, in my Dad's wood shop is a 6x48 belt sander, I have resurfaced many heads on that thing, usually don't take much more than 30 secs, and i usually put it on the belt table just as I shut the sander motor off....
its been a little while since I did a K series (I'm guessing 2 maybe 3 years now) gonna have to dust off the manual for the specs. but I have 2 more to do after this one.... another 301, and a K 321. the 321 is apart already.