1864 cleanup, test drive, and leak found

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sorner

Ok. So the rear and the pump from the 1641 is of no use to be a spare to the 1864.

No. Like Mike said, different trans, and the hydrogear in the 1641 isn't the better of the two.


So..... I'm kind of tired of this thread. When are you going to fix this damn thing? Suck it up, pull it out, fix it, or live with the freaking leak. Two damn drops on a piece of cardboard and you act like it's draining the rear end overnight. If you can't or worn't fix it, go back to using the 1641 and sell Sam the 1864. Whatever you do, quit complaining and get to fixing it. We all know what the issue is, you just don't seem to want to do the work to fix it. 6 days you have been whining about this leak...... 6 DAYS!!!!

Absolutely nothing wrong with using silicone on the axle tubes as long as you use the right kind. Red is high temp. I'd silicone them on and not look back.

[Sam Mac]

Here's the deal, you jack it up, drain it, disconnect the trans linkage, remove 4 bolts for the drive shaft, remove 6 bolts that hold the front mounts, remove 4 bolts that go through the frame and axle tubes, disconnect the brakes, remove the frame end plate 4 bolts and take that off then roll the rear out. 4 bolts hold the pump on. Take them out, pull the pump scrap the old cork gasket off. Replace the gasket and reinstall the pump. Remove the brakes, 2 bolts on each side. Remove the rear cover 9 bolts. Pop the C-clips in the center of the diff and pull the axels out. Remove the C-clip that retain the seals if you have the external C-clips (some are on the out side some are behind the seals) remove the seals. Remove the axle tube bolts 4 bolts on each side remaining because you have already removed the 4 that held it in the frame. Pop the tubes off and clean up the mess that will be inside them. Drill a 3/8" hole in the bottom of the case for an oil drain on each side of the case. Clean and reassemble in reverse order. Here is the parts list you will need and cost.

Transaxle seals and gaskets

921-3004 gasket 1 cork gasket $5.33 $5.33
721-3014 gasket 2 carrier gaskets $6.50 ea $13.00
921-3020A seal 2 axle seals $6.11 ea $12.22
921-3015 gasket 1 rear cover $7.64 $7.64
$38.19

[sorner]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

No. Like Mike said, different trans, and the hydrogear in the 1641 isn't the better of the two.


So..... I'm kind of tired of this thread. When are you going to fix this damn thing? Suck it up, pull it out, fix it, or live with the freaking leak. Two damn drops on a piece of cardboard and you act like it's draining the rear end overnight. If you can't or worn't fix it, go back to using the 1641 and sell Sam the 1864. Whatever you do, quit complaining and get to fixing it. We all know what the issue is, you just don't seem to want to do the work to fix it. 6 days you have been whining about this leak...... 6 DAYS!!!!

Absolutely nothing wrong with using silicone on the axle tubes as long as you use the right kind. Red is high temp. I'd silicone them on and not look back.

Sorry to take up your 6 days with whining. The two "damn" drops happened while it's been sitting for several days. When I drive it and then park it, it leaves a puddle by the next day. THAT is a problem, leaving hydro fluid grease slicks on my garage floor is not optimal and needs fixed. I'm just asking a lot of questions because I've never had a rear apart and I don't want to cause a bigger problem and make it unusable. That's why I asked about parts interchangeability, so if I break something or find big problems in the rear differential, can the differential (minus the pump) from the 1641 bolt up to the Sundstrand pump and work. I don't want to move the hydrogear pump to the 1864, that is not an option and would be dumb. I know the hydrogear would not be a good fit with the power steering. I know the Sundstrand > the hydrogear. I know the Kohler 18hp > Briggs Vanguard 16hp. I know the 1864 > 1641.

So I don't take up any more of your time reading my "whining" posts, which is obviously your choice to read them in the first place. I won't post anymore to this thread until I have it apart and back together unless I find a problem I need help with. Otherwise my next post in this thread will be when it's done.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far to everyone. I think I have enough information to tackle this repair.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sorner

I won't post anymore to this thread until I have it apart and back together unless I find a problem I need help with. Otherwise my next post in this thread will be when it's done.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far to everyone. I think I have enough information to tackle this repair.

About time. I would hope you would have enough info. The other guys did everything but read the manual to you, which, if you had read would have answered most all your questions. These things are about as simple a machine as they can get. If your afraid you will break it working on it, then hire the repair done. Not everyone is, or can be a mechanic.

Get it fixed and post your happy, happy results.

[Sam Mac]

Let me toss one last thing into this conversation. You say that it leaks when you run it but only drips a bit after it sits. From my experience 2 things will do what you say it's doing and both are common at the age of these machines. First thing I would look at is the relief valves on top of the pump. Take off the tunnel cover and look to see if oil is coming out of the little hole in the center on the top. If it is it's very common for the oil to get blown all over by the cooling fan and it may look like it's coming from other places and it will drip for days. The other probable leak is the cork gasket between the pump and trans case. The oil drains back from the pump into the trans case through the bearing on the pump and the cork gasket is the seal between the two. When the cork gasket fails it will leak a fair amount while running and shortly after shut down but the oil will also drip for days. Pic of a leaker. If this is your leak it's an easy fix, you remove the valves, send them to Mach Tech and he rebuilds them, you screw them back in and be happy.

[sorner]

Originally Posted by Sam Mac

Let toss one last thing into this conversation. You say that it leaks when you run it but only drips a bit after it sits. From my experience 2 things will do what you say it's doing and both are common at the age of these machines. First thing I would look at is the relief valves on top of the pump. Take off the tunnel cover and look to see if oil is coming out of the little hole in the center on the top. If it is it's very common for the oil to get blown all over by the cooling fan and it may look like it's coming from other places and it will drip for days. The other probable leak is the cork gasket between the pump and trans case. The oil drains back from the pump into the trans case through the bearing on the pump and the cork gasket is the seal between the two. When the cork gasket fails it will leak a fair amount while running and shortly after shut down but the oil will also drip for days. Pic of a leaker. If this is your leak it's an easy fix, you remove the valves, send them to Mach Tech and he rebuilds them, you screw them back in and be happy.

Sorry Jonathan to break my no posting promise, but I have to answer this question...

Mine is pretty clean up in that area and around the cork gasket area. It does not look wet at all around the valves or around the cork gasket. The vast majority of the oil junk was on the black part of the transaxle and the inner exterior of the axle tubes. I'm just going to pull it and clean it out, and re-seal and re-gasket it and hope for the best. It's for sure definitely leaking from where the axle tubes bolt to the main part, but I can't really tell without running it if it's leaking elsewhere, and I'd have to put it all back together so it has gas and a seat to run it to test further. At this point I'm just going to go down the list you sent me and get it done. It won't cost much and it'll be good as new when I'm done with it. It's not going to be too difficult for me to do. I have replaced two engines and a transmission in my car, I just don't like to over complicate and take things apart and replace things if I don't have to. If it ain't obviously broke, I'd rather not risk breaking it or causing other problems. Like unnecessarily twisted off bolts or broken bolt holes (I've been down that road before on other projects).

Thanks again for the advice

[Sam Mac]

I e-mailed you the service manual.

[sorner]

Well I am back, and I have the rear removed, and disassembled. I found a nut inside the differential housing that appears to have come from the one frame mounting bolts that looked different, it had a nut glued on the inside because the hole is stripped out. Is that the recommended fix for a stripped out bolt? I don't see a problem with it, I guess. I don't feel all warm and fuzzy about it. I think the cork gasket looks fine, it is completely try in the area between the pump and differential. There is no gasket whatsoever on the rear plate. I guess it was attempted to be glued or permatexed, or something, but it almost looks like there's nothing there. I took the bolts out and it fell right off the back. So that is where I'm at currently, and I'm calling it a night. I'll be ordering parts tomorrow.

[Sam Mac]

Steve

Putting a nut on the inside is not a recommended repair. I would put a heli coil in or go with a larger diameter bolt. Not the first time I've seen or heard of a stripped bolt hole having a nut on the inside of the case though. As far as the rear cover being siliconed on that is OK. Personally I hate the stamped rear covers. I replace them with a cover from Xtreme. http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Part...Cub-Cadet.html

[sorner]

I like this one better...
Capture.jpg

...but this project is starting to get out of the range of money I have to spend on hobbies...