1650 will not run, please help!

[drake dumpster]

I recently was given a 1650 that hadn't run in a year or so. So I first tried starting it and then proceeded to check for spark fuel etc. I noticed the exhaust valve was stuck so I fixed that (helped break it loose and kept oiling it) i then put it back together and tried firing it, no spark. i noticed to have spark while turning the key the brake had to be on. (I also did the lead to the starter beforehand but wanted to be able to use the key). So now I had spark and was able to get it started. I was able to run it around the yard and get all the hydraulics working. So I the. Took it apart to put new gaskets on the head and lower end. After I tried to start it and now it will not run. Have spark and plenty of fuel. Took head apart again and the valves are operating as they should. (Noticed there was a very small amount of oil and a a lot of moisture.) It will sometimes pop or two but will not run. Tried setting timing, same thing. I tried retarding and advancing the timing a hair too,same thing. Any ideas?? Also tried shutting gas off and using a little starter fluid as well as gas in the cylinder. Same thing. So frustrated!!!

[mortten]

New spark plug? Sometimes they won't fire under compression when they're going bad.

[olds45512]

if the valve was stuck and all you did was oil it then its going to stick again and might even be stuck right now just from trying to start it, you need to remove the valve and clean all the carbon off.

[Yosemite Sam]

I agree with the valve issue, you can't just lubricate the stem, you gotta take it out and clean it to prevent it from sticking again.

Here is a copy of a letter that I wrote a few years ago to a friend of mine who was driving me crazy about a new to him Cub that he couldn't get started. Please understand that if anything in the letter sounds harsh, it's not directed at you. Also keep in mind that this was a starter/generator engine so you will need to attach your wires accordingly to a regular QL starter.

The first thing STOP SETTING THE POINTS AT .020

Here is the straight poop.

I have had a number of S/Gs that will spin like crazy on the bench, but don't have enough power to turn an engine over. So keep that in mind.

When I get a new to me Cub Cadet, my first priority is to check to see if the engine is any good.

If the tractor has any wiring or wiring related issues or anything related is suspect, I will bypass EVERYTHING that may prevent this engine from starting.

Your very first step is to see if you have "fire" at the points. Begin by REMOVING THE Spark PLUG WIRE. Then check the points to see if they LOOK good, open them up and look at the two little round disks on them, they should be clean and free of any grey looking crusty stuff, if they are not, drag some emery cloth or a point file between them until they look like they will make contact and support the flow of a little electricity.

Then rotate the engine so that the points are CLOSED. Run a wire from a KNOWN GOOD POWER SUPPLY to the positive side of the coil and ground to a good clean bare spot on the engine. DON'T FART AROUND WITH SOME CRAPPY OLD L & G BATTERY use something that IS good. I usually use a boost box or jumper cables from my truck. I then use a screwdriver to manually open and close the points to see if they SPARK or not. If they do not, I will file the points a little and try again, if they still do not spark, I use a test light to find out why electricity isn't getting to them.

At this time, with the points open there should be power to the positive side of the coil, the negative side of the coil and the screw that attaches the wire to the points. AND with the points closed, there should be no power to the screw that attaches to the points or to the neg side of the coil. When the points are open there should be 12v at the neg. post on the coil and the screw that attaches to the points. If you have power to that screw and the neg post on the coil and it will not go dead when the points appear to be closed, then the points ARE NOT making contact. If you don't have power to that wire, then find out why not and fix it. No matter what else you do, your engine WILL NOT RUN if these conditions are not met.

Once you have fire to the points, you can adjust your timing, leave that stupid feeler gauge in the drawer and use this link to adjust your timing. http://mgonitzke.net16.net/tools/static_timing.pdf If you don't have a meter you can use a test light. Attach the clip on end of the test light to the Neg side of the coil and touch the pointed end to the bracket that holds the points (when the light comes on the points have opened). If the light stays on all the time, even when the points appear to be closed, then the points ARE NOT making contact and must be cleaned or replaced, I can not emphasize this enough, if you have followed these instructions and the light still stays on, the engine WILL NOT START. STOP farting around and find out why the points are not making contact.

CHECK THE TIMING SEVERAL TIMES TO MAKE SURE IT IS EXACTLY WHERE YOU WANT IT TO BE, AND ONLY TURN THE ENGINE THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO TURN. You can take the spark plug out to make the engine turn easier. Do not leave the "jumper wire" attached to the coil for extended periods of time, unless you are physically in the act of checking or adjusting something (if you walk away for a minute or two, unhook the wire).

Once you have fire to the points and your timing is set, LEAVE THE TRACTOR KEY IN YOUR POCKET, attach the POS. (jumper cable) to the "A" terminal on the S/G and run a "jumper wire" from that cable TO the POS. side of the coil, DO NOT HOOK THE JUMPER CABLE TO THE THREADS ON THE "A" TERMINAL hook it to the NUT. Make sure the tractor is in neutral and attach the NEG jumper cable to the rear bolt that holds the S/G onto its bracket. (you should have already replaced the spark plug and wire) The engine should turn as it normally would if you were using the key and everything was working as it should. If it doesn't then you either have a bad S/G or a bad connection and you must correct these issues before continuing.

Some people will yell at me about this, but if the engine doesn't start right away, I will spritz a little starting fluid directly into the throat of the carburetor. (If you do this you are doing it at YOUR OWN RISK.) The engine should come to life and run briefly then sputter to a stop if the fuel system needs attention and more starting fluid is not added.

If you do EXACTLY what I have outlined above you have BYPASSED EVERYTHING (other than internal engine problems) that will prevent your engine from starting, so be responsible and don't get yourself hurt. This system has worked perfectly for me on countless Cubs that have come my way over the years, EVEN engines that have very little compression due to worn out rings/bore. I HAVE NEVER HAD TO ADJUST VALVES OR ANY OTHER CRAP JUST TO MAKE ONE RUN. (Not saying that I will never have to, because that day may come. It just hasn't happened yet in more than 20 years.)

Stop monkeying around going from one thing to another and make the engine run, right now that is your ONLY priority.

If you have a malfunctioning ACR, you gotta get that fixed too. Otherwise, this engine should run if you do what I have told you to do. It really is that simple. END OF STORY!

[homebuilt]

there is some good advice that's straight to the point.

[gwoomay]

The website you list says "This page can not be displayed". Is there another way to get to it?

[drake dumpster]

Thanks for the info. I will run through everything you stated step by step and see what happens. I have spark at the plug when i ground it out but i will go through the timing and everything again. I know the valve is not sticking because i took the head off last night and rotated the engine, the valves were working as they should. I will go through yosemite sams letter and if that does not work i will post reply. thanks for the quick reply.

[drake dumpster]

So i was able to get the tractor up and running. The condenser ended up not being grounded well enough. Even though it was bolted on, it was not getting a good enough ground causing the problems. Such an easy fix that took so long! I didn't think this would be a problem due to the condenser being bolted on in the same fashion as before.

[Cub Cadet 123]

Originally Posted by drake dumpster

So i was able to get the tractor up and running. The condenser ended up not being grounded well enough. Even though it was bolted on, it was not getting a good enough ground causing the problems. Such an easy fix that took so long! I didn't think this would be a problem due to the condenser being bolted on in the same fashion as before.

All is well that ends well, you got your tractor up and running and learned something along the way. Sometimes, the most obvious fixes are the ones we commonly overlook. Another thing that sometimes gets overlooked is the network of friends and help that is offered here at OCC. Wow, Yosemite Sam can be a long winded varmint , but Mark knows his stuff very well and he remembers the great advice that Matt put up on this site (reference to the web address) when he was a more active member. We pass along advice and from time to time, we differ on some things, but always remember the help that you received and then reciprocate it to others along their way in the future. Now, get away from this computer and go get some seat time on that tractor.

**Maybe a good idea to clean all of your grounding connections when you get a chance and re-tighten the bolts!

Glad you are up and running,

Cub Cadet 123