Miller Tire Surprise
 

I am confused after mounting new tires on one of my 1250's. I own three 1250's two of which still had original front tires. Of the two with original tires one is a 1975 with 3/4 inch spindles and the other is a 1979 with 1 inch spindles. The '79 had serious balding issues and so I purchased a new set from Miller Tire. The former owner of my '79 took excellent care of this machine and I was aware that he had put 1650 sized tires on the rear. The front tires, although balding, looked the same size as my other 1250 that also still had original front tires. The size on both were 16x6.50-8. I ordered a pair of the same size Carlisle Rib 4-ply. These are tubeless but I put tubes in anyway due to the terrain I deal with. When I mounted them and put them on, the two tractors were within 4 feet of each other, however, the new tires looked like I am running a pair of blow-up spares compared to the original front tires I removed and the original tires still on the other tractor. The pressure is correct on both pair but the new tires are smaller. Same size but very noticeably smaller. Now I am thinking I should have bought the V61's but I have no idea if they would be the correct size once mounted. Has anyone on here had this occur or are the V61's and the Carlisle Rib 4-ply just made differently? I can't stand the look of the ones I mounted but before ordering V61's I thought I would see if I could get some better info than the forum photos and info I thought I had correct. I had read forum recommendations for both of these tires from Miller but there is something wrong about the Carlisle's I chose. I want to match the original look and I do plan on asking Miller what the difference is but I figure you guys are the experts from a Cub Cadet standpoint. Any help would be very appreciated!

Pics of both tractors would help.:beerchug:

Edit: paragraphs would help read that mess too.

16x6.50x8 is the correct size. Probably just a difference in brand.

Lawn and garden tires actual dimensions vary widely from manufacturer. I have had tires vary in dimension from the same company. When I purchase tires for my QuietLines, I compare each one to ensure equal size. :beerchug:

I would agree with Jon on the brands being the issue. Just because the tire size is 16x6.50-8, the only certain is the 8" wheel size...

I purchased these tires based on forum info after months of research on multiple forums.

Two specific tires from Miller were suggested multiple times on this and other forums.

I was not going by just tire size.

It is a shame that reproduction tires are not readily available.

I just wanted it to look stock and match the deck set-up within reason.

I can't see where pics would help. Sorry about not paragraphing correctly.

Thanks for your help guys.

I'd just like to see how big a difference we're talking. One guys 6 inches is totally different from another's.:biggrin2:

And paragraphs help my drunk a$$ eyes stay focused.:beer2:

Sorry 3 forums steered you wrong.:bigthink:

New tires just like OEM are available. I've bought them. Maybe what you think is OEM on your tractors, isn't.

Pictures would help......

If I'm following what you are talking about, I had the same problem on my 147 when I bought the same tires for the front. I had bought one in 2012 and then bought another one in 2014 just to notice, although the tire size was the same, it was a smaller tire. I contacted Carslile about the problem and they sent me another tire. I ended up putting two new tires on the front of my 147 and I was happy with it. My guess is that with a bit of age they grow in size about 1-2 inches.

You may have :NailHead:

Highly unlikely.... tire rubber doesn't do that. They have belts in them.

Belts have belts in them too. They stretch. My guess is it would be the sidewalls that stretch. I am going to document this on the next set of front tires I replace.:bigthink::beerchug:

Different kind of belting in a belt. Belts are designed to flex. Bias tires are not.

I have a belt and somehow I keep getting bigger.:bigthink:

:ExtremeFunny:

I think that's a different problem....

You guys might get a kick out of this.

The tires I had purchased simply are a smaller tire. Same size by number as OEMs that were on my 1250. (btw I am well aware of the original OEM tires and NO they are no longer made) The style of Carlisle 4 rib I purchased are, by nature, smaller and this is difficult to determine until you have the tire in hand. Tire sizes can vary once mounted from what is stamped on them according to manufacturers. Mine looked like low riders up front once put on the 1250 and dropped the front of the deck considerably. Wish someone would have mentioned that when recommending the tires.

So...I purchased a set of V-61's and once they arrived I was able to tell they would be a better match height and width wise. I figured the Carlisle's could go on another of my 1250's that only plows snow and is already fitted with older Carlisle's of similar size.

I am not able to do the tire mounting so I took the lot of them to our Cub Cadet dealer to have the Carlisle's removed and the V-61's mounted.

Now, if you do the internet research, you will find that V-61's come in 4 and 6 ply versions at this size (16x6.50-8) and are the most popular Heavy Duty ribbed retro-fitted tires for Cub Cadets, Tri-ribs not withstanding. (these statements are heavily qualified so read carefully before contesting). The V-61 4-ply version is difficult to find. I saw them listed at one dealer in Wisconsin and that was it. The 6-ply are what Miller sell and have sold for many vintage Cubs. If you have a loader 6-ply are mandatory for load ratings anyway. 6-ply also allow the tires under normal use to be run with less psi before affecting ease of steering.

I no sooner get home from dropping the tires off and the Cub Cadet dealer calls saying that they cannot mount the tires on the rims. I drive back there and they say that the V-61's are the toughest front tires they have ever seen. Not only this but, they apologize for scraping-up the paint on the rim they tried mounting. These are OEM rims that I took the time to correctly prep, paint with Rustoleum Appliance Epoxy, and allowed to cure for two weeks before mounting the Carlisle's. Now I have a rim to re-paint and no clue where to take them to have the V-61's mounted. Hard to believe considering how popular the V-61's are but the Cub Cadet dealer was clueless.

This seems crazy to me. If you were to look before commenting you would see V-61's raved about throughout this forum. Pictures and plugs for purchasing them at Miller are found throughout all garden tractor forums. Also, before commenting, think in terms of the fact that you do not know me. Any comments about OEM or my lack of familiarization with what is OEM is short sighted. What I could use are comments from those who have actually mounted or have had mounted Vredestein V-61 6-ply tires on wide OEM Quiet Line rims. My 1250 is equipped with 1" spindles and the rims were taken from a 1650 by the former owner before I owned this tractor.

To be honest, a couple of responses after my first thread were condescending. I believe you guys can do better than that. There are a lot of people who read your forum. These folks can figure out who the experts are over time and they rely on the experienced information you guys can provide.
:beatdeadhorse: Hint-that's not a dead horse in this case.



.

According to the Vredestein website, the 16x6.50-8 only comes in 6 ply. The larger 18x8.50-8 come in 4 and 6 ply. I don't know what that one dealer had listed, but they must have been wrong.

http://www.vredestein.com/agricultur...ter/v61/sizes/

Try a different shop? Maybe go to an actual tire place? They should know how to mount/dismount any tire. If it's outside of the "ordinary", lawn mower shops probably don't know how to handle it.

I take my tires to a shop that does big rig and farm tractor tires, they charge me $5 each and haven't scratched a rim yet.

I'd waste a phone call to Miller and see if anyone has ever complained of such a problem and what the popular tricks to mounting them are. How about trying an independent tire shop-one that mounts all kinds of tires. Those guys should know all the tricks of the trade.

I do plan on going to a tire shop tomorrow and I will be calling Miller. I also saw that Vredestein didn't list a 4-ply and I have never heard anyone refer to their V-61's as 4-ply. After I get the front tires dealt with I still have to switch to AG's in the rear. At this rate the lawn will be a meadow before I get out there. Fortunately, I have had time to recondition the trunnion springs and repair the arm already and without welding!

I do appreciate your help. Going through the rim painting process again will mean it will be some time before I can move forward. I will let you know how it goes.

No one in this thread has been condescending. Not yet anyway..... If you think they are, your being pretty sensitive.

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly it is that you want from us? Your not mounting the tires yourself, and you already bought two sets of tires. You never posted any pics of these supposed undersized tires like we asked..... So, do you need someone to get you a phone number to a local tire shop? :Unknown:

I think I stated quite clearly what information would be helpful from those who may have experience with the V-61's, as well as, my initial confusion reflected in my first thread.

If I were to assume that you may not know what is OEM on this particular tractor and you actually had one of these tractors in your collection untouched since being delivered to a dealership in 1980 that you use for reference in conjunction with operating, parts, and service manuals for working on your other units of the same kind, I wonder how you would feel?

If, indeed, you are involved heavily in research and read long transcripts with hefty paragraphs and after posting a thread here someone refers to your entry as a "mess" due to a punctuation interpretation by a self-proclaimed ETOH influenced member, how would you feel?

If you had the utmost respect for those members who have a great deal of experience to share on this forum and the one time you could really could use some help from any of these folks with experience involving tires and rims of a Cub Cadet because you are inexperienced in anything other than OEM I think you would might feel a bit talked down to.

It should be fairly obvious what kind of problems I am experiencing and what kind of assistance I am hoping to find.

Ordering the first set of tires and experiencing the sizing issue I did, I have interpreted as my lack of knowledge concerning tire sizing variables within the industry. I appreciate coming to this realization through some of the replies I received on this forum from those responding in a constructive manner. Once switching to the very popular V-61's discussed heavily on this and other forums, it should also be clear, given the information that I have provided, that I am running into mounting issues.

Being that I cannot mount these tires myself I am reliant on paying someone else to do so. Does this disqualify me in some way from seeking information after having the rims ruined and being told that my choice of tires and the OEM rims are to blame for this occurring? After reading about these tires being successfully used by members of this and other forums and not reading that there is some type of issue with mounting them I believe the natural reaction would be to post a thread asking about this in the hopes that someone on this forum can shed some light through experience considering the number of past posts about the V-61's.

So tell me, what constructive insight or information should I take away from your reply? In what way is it helpful? When a member is down and reaches out for help how do you treat them?

In my opinion, you treat them as the first three responses did after my V-61 questions last evening. Within every forum there are those who are knowledgeable and possess a genuine desire to help. It is these members I am grateful for. It is these members who have propelled this forum to the well regarded stature it holds.

Again, pictures would not help in this case.

Any 6 ply tire that is that small in diameter is going to be very difficult to get on the rim, I suggest you find a mom and pop tire shop and have them installed and if you're worried about the paint you could always what till they're mounted and the tape off the tire and paint them again.

I can't count how many times I read about people getting scratches on their freshly paint rim after mounting new tire, those V61 are a real PITA, I try to mount them and give up.

A old local service garage did it for a very fair price so like Tim I suggest you find a old service garage who use to do bias, tractor and truck tires, if this doesn't work for you find a place who do ATV tires, they charge premium but those guys deal frequently with small off road mag wheels and don't scratch them...

Sorry for your rim. :beerchug:

You mean in your first post. This entire thing is thread. You only have one thread on this site. This one. You now have 4 posts.

Well.... you didn't state it "clearly" what you are wanting.... but as I gather, you want to know whether anyone else has bought Carlisle tires and if they were noticeably shorter than the original tire. The answer is yes. One person on here has experienced that. If others have, they are not chiming in.... or they don't see it as some kind of an issue.

You also want to know if the V61's are comparable to the original tires. Well...... you are the one stating that there are loads of threads bragging on them... along with countless pics of them. Look pretty big to me. I don't know that anyone has ever done a side by side comparison of the V61 to the original tires. Again.... you have all 3 sets at your disposal. Why not post some pictures so we can see the difference you seem so adamant about exposing.



Well, it goes like this. We were all new here at some point. You stated in an earlier post, that we do not "know" you. You're right. The vast majority of new members here, and low post count members, are not.... lets say, "informed" people. Oh, they think they are sometimes. We see it all the time. So.... you're saying that you have an all original Quietline machine, that you bought new. And you want to know how I would feel if someone assumed that I don't know what I'm talking about. Well... I guess I'd feel the same. Doesn't really tug at my emotions one way or the other.



Your first post was a mess, and most people on here aren't interested in a long wordy "book". We want direct questions and facts. Your "heavily involved" research has proven to be very flawed.... I refrained from posting a few inequities I found in it..... and I'm still not interested in trying to correct your interpretation of the information you have found as you seem to be quite content to be self enlightened off most random postings on other forums. Your "heavily involved" research is mostly a conclusion you have drawn from other peoples opinion that you read on other forums, or at least that's how it appears to me.... because some of the the information you have dispersed is somewhat inaccurate. Such as 6 ply tires being absolutely necessary for tractors with a loader on them. Well.. the very Carlisle tires you bought have a load rating of 640# on them. That's 1280# available rated weight carrying capability. Most every garden tractor with a loader and a 175# operator doesn't weigh 1280#. Now, add ballast to the rear (which adds no weight to the front tires) and you can get the machine up to about that weight. Now... the loader itself will only pick up about 400#. So... you think you have anywhere near 1280# on the two front tires?? I'm going to say that you maybe have 900# total on the front axle. That's a very long way from needing a heavier tire.

So... how would I feel. Well.... I don't know. Because my feeling would be based on a flawed sense of self education, and believing that I possess knowledge that others don't have. So, you probably felt offended, when you should have felt enlightened. Or maybe compelled... compelled to post more clearly, and perhaps even to be more brief. I guess you went with offended.



I'm sure you do have the "utmost respect" for the members here. But you have us at a disadvantage. You apparently have been reading and lurking in the shadows, forming opinions on tires, repair options, and apparently the members. We however, are just meeting you for the first time.... and I do not represent the group at all... but I'm not impressed, or inclined to be respectful. With only 4 posts, and all the complaining you are doing, I'm forming an opinion alright.....

I'm still not convinced that you have "experience" in "OEM".... and again, if you feel talked down to, it's because you have a self elevated position of value. You think you're enlightened, and therefore feel offended when we question your enlightenment. Again... we don't know you, and you're really not doing a very good job at "winning us over". That's my opinion anyway. I'm sure you will contend. Which really isn't fair, as you have been pretty vocal about your feelings. I should be able to be vocal about mine, shouldn't I?



Not really.... oh the problems are apparent. But the help you are seeking is not. It's obvious that you bought some tires that you didn't like. Then you bought another set that you took to the wrong place to mount, and they scratched your rims. Outside of that.... what help do you want? Again, do you need the phone number to a local tire shop? Do you want us to recommend a now irrelevant coarse of action on how to deal with the CC dealer scratching your rims? Do we need to tell you to wait until the tires are mounted to repaint the rims so that they don't get scratched again??? Offering advice on how to mount the tires is a waste of our time, as you aren't going to do it yourself anyway..... you already decided on what tires you wanted to buy.... twice.... so making another brand recommendation is also kind of a silly thing to do. So... yeah... what information are you seeking????

I'll reiterate that your "issues" mounting them aren't really your issue. They are the issue of whoever you hire to mount them. Again... finding you a reputable tire shop is about the only thing you need. Offering advice on how to mount them is a waste of time if you're only going to pay someone to do it.



Yes... it does really disqualify you in seeking information. All as you're really doing is lodging a complaint. When you can't make the "repair" yourself, then you are at the mercy of whoever you hire. I ran a shop for years, and it is more than frustrating when someone comes in and begins to inform you, the owner, on how to do a particular job. In other words, just to be clear, if we advise you on how to mount the tire, then you take that information to whatever shop you choose and disperse it with them, I don't believe you will be well received. They may even refuse to attempt to mount the tires on the premise that you are the type of person who they may not be able to satisfy, and therefore don't want the headache of dealing with you. So.... yeah. You're disqualified on the basis that you do not intend to do the work yourself.

As far as having the rims "ruined" I believe it was only the paint that was ruined. Personally, I would not have painted them prior to taking them to a shop to get the tires mounted. Nor would I have used the brand of paint you did. Nor would I have allowed the Cub Cadet dealer to scratch them up without getting the tires mounted, without, at the very least, having them give you a can of paint to repaint them with. You could have even told them that you brought the tires in to be mounted, and you expect that a business that works on and sells garden tractors should be able to mount a tire, and that if they needed to find someone else to mount them, so be it. But.... accepting a rim back without a tire on it that they damaged, then gave you no more than a "sorry".... that's on you man. Nothing we can do for you there.

You didn't read about any "issues" mounting them, because most of the machine owners either paid someone else to do it, and they succeeded, or they went out and mounted them like you would mount any 6ply tire. With some brute strength, and the proper tools. It is what it is..... Again, all I see this thread as is one long complaint seeking solace for the decisions you already made.



My constructive insight is that you either need to ask questions before making purchases, or learn to mount your own tires. It's not fair to complain or ask questions after making the purchase, and after you've had a bad experience with a particular dealer. You are basically asking us to feel sorry for you..... and I'm not feeling very sorry for you. You made decision based on what you read, not based on a response to a particular question you asked before making a purchase. So, how do I treat you? I'll treat you like someone lodging a complaint and asking questions after the fact. You made some bad decisions. That's not my fault.



I do desire to help.... but from where I am, and where you are, there isn't much help I can give. I can recommend, that you go find a tire shop and pay them to mount your tires, then take them home and repaint the rims. Outside of that, you're on your own.


For what you seek... no. Pictures probably would not have gotten you back the money you spend on tires that you didn't like. Pictures would not have helped us help you... not for the help you desire.

Good day to you.

:IH Trusted Hand:

I take my tires to a Discount Tire. They enjoy mounting them and do it for a reasonable price.

3 pages and still no pictures...

Can't say I've ever had to change a front tire on a Cadet.:bigthink:

Just gonna toss out something. If the rims are offset, then you can only mount the tire from one side--the ones on my Kawasaki Mule are like that.

How are the rims constructed? What I am asking is are there 2 halves and a center like an idler pulley? If so I imagine you could drill out the welds like a pulley when you replace a bearing and bolt it back together. My go-cart has 2 pc rims like that---but its over 40 years old and the rims are alum.

Anyway, like has been said before, a good tire shop should handle this with minimal damage to the paint.

I seriously want to thank those who gave me some insight and tried to help. Simple rim/tire issues blown way out by those who ruin forums. Thought this one was different. I would tell you the detrimental effect some of you have but it wouldn't do any good. You guys are right though. Listening to forum people will not help. Thanks.

Yes, they are just like that. :beerchug:


I'm sure at some point they are two piece, but not in the way you imagine. No spot welds to drill out. Besides, the old ATV two piece rims have a rubber o-ring in them to seal them up. If these were a two piece rim and you drilled them out, then bolted them back together, first of all you would have ugly bolts in a rim that wasn't supposed to have them. Second, you they would not seal up. I guess you could tube them, but that's a lot of work to go through to do a simple tire mount. I realize you were just thinking out loud though.



I think you finally understand..... It IS a simple issue. All you need to do is take them to a reputable tire shop and get them mounted. :ThumbsUp:

Can't help the OP, but I can give you a bit of advice, personal advice. I also purchased the V-61 tires. I bought them for my 782, and knew I wouldn't be mounting them myself.
I DID have the wheels pre painted, and took them to "my tire guy", and had them installed. He used tire irons, a lot of soap, and within fifteen minutes I was paying the man and on my way home with mounted tires and minimal paint chipping.
Nothing a little paint, and brush couldn't fix.:bigthink:
My advice. Take them to a reputable tire "guy/establishment.:beerchug:

I don't get the problem with the V61's? I have installed them on.my 782 with just my Hf cheap tire system and had no issue...

No one does...... (understand the problem)

I use a set of motorcycle tire pry bars with great success in the pass but for those V61 it didn't work. Maybe I'm just a old lazy man enough fortunate to pay a big $10 fee to get them done by a qualified person :biggrin2:

eit
 

Our tire shop had no problems putting the V61's on rims either.