Mechanical PTO Rebuild
 

Well, looks like a rebuild is going to be in order.. was mowing tonight.. and after disengaging the PTO it wouldn't reengage.. ...

found this! YIKES!

Can someone tell me what the set screws are? So I can pull the clutch...

thanks

oh.. note the little (looks like a spring clip) to the left and just below the left hand throw out plate!

There are three 1/4" holes around the perimeter of the pto pulley. There are coresponding slots in the basket pulley to access the set screws. You have to put pressure on the thrust button to release the pto pulley and turn it until the slots line up with the holes. I use the pto lever on the tractor which can be difficult but works for me. I push and turn at the same time. It usually doesn't take much. A gear puller will work too. Once you get the holes lined up you should find two set screws per hole. Now's a good time for a little PB Blaster or the equivilant. First out will be a very short set screw then a longer one which should have a pointed end. Once all six are out the fun begins. I use a long, blunt punch to tap the pto pully NOT the basket pulley. I run the punch in down by the points cover at as much angle as I can get. Tap then turn and repeat this until you notice it becoming loose from the bearing. Don't hit the punch hard, just tap and turn. I have gotten very stuborn ptos off using this method. Use a little patience as well.

If you're lucky you'll find two jam nuts behind the pto that held that loose bolt. I did once myself.

Good luck!

Actually, I was missing one whole set of set-screws, and it appears (I'll look closer) there were only one set. But yes I found the jam nuts in the pulley basket, and what I thought was a snap ring was the PTO bearing dust cover!....

I had no issue turning the PTO assembly by hand what-so-ever.. no pressure needed on the button.. it wasn't hard to turn at all.. but.. I think it was/is pretty much toast.

The friction disk has a crack in it.. and I'm thinking the bearing looks a little worse for the wear? This doesn't look too awful difficult... what should I replace, what should I clean up etc.. tricks, tips, cautions greatly appreciated...

thanks

How does one go about removing the PTO bearing and collar? I've removed the bearing collar set screw.. but she's on there tight...

thanks..

also any info on parts suppliers would be appreciated..

Looks like my list will be

PTO Bearing and Collar
Compression Springs
Pressure Plate
Friction Disk
Snap ring
Anti-Rattle Springs (all 3 missing)
set of set screws (one complete set missing)
Thrust Button
Wear Button

I haven't checked the pressure plate for warp yet.. I guess if it's true I could just clean that up.. I'll clean up the pulley assembly etc.. Considering taking the basket pulley off while I'm in there and cleaning it and giving it a coat of paint... any thoughts on that?

thanks

To get the collar and bearing off you need to remove the nut and set screw from the collar. Off to the side of the set screw hole is another hole that is for a small punch. As you face the front of the tractor you want to "punch" the collar clockwise. This is opposite the way the engine turns when running. It shouldn't take much to loosen the collar. Once loose it should slide back a tad on the crank and clear the bearing. Everything should come off now but may need a little help by tapping the backside of the bearing. This is another place for some PB Blaster. Once off you should clean the crank with a fine emery cloth.

As far as your list goes you only need a couple of things. The pressure plates should be fine. I clean mine up on a 4" stationary belt sander. The main spring and clutch disk will be in the kit. The bearing, collar, buttons (wear and thrust), set crews, and any separate parts for the pto are to be ordered individually.

I also take a 1/4-20 tap and clean out all three set screw holes while you have it in your hand. You'll see some fine, rusty crap come out.

Leave the snap ring alone unless it's broken or obviously in need of replacement. Take some steel wool and clean the inside of the pto casting the goes on the crank and has the snap ring. After painting I put a very thin coat of grease in this area and on the crank upon installation.

If you can get the basket pulley off with little trouble now would be a good time to clean and paint it. They are prone to surface rust on the backside; this is one of the areas the paint gun never reaches after installtion.

Be sure and paint the parts to the pto too. I paint everything but the face of the thrust button and the chrome (nickel) bolts. Try not to get paint on the inside that slides over the crank or in the set screw holes.

Good luck once more.....Wayne

Thats one thing I have not got around to do yet is figure out why the pto stays engauged.

Don't paint the parts of the clutch casting and pressure plate that are in contact with the friction disc, either...those areas need to be bare steel.

Librati: On reassembly, I recommend that you coat all metal-to-metal contact parts with Anti-Sieze (not on your clutch plates or disc!). That way they won't rust up if you ever have to again remove the PTO Clutch. Also, make sure you correctly follow the IH instructions for reinstalling that Bearing with the Self Locking Collar!

JohnCub: The PTO clutch is engaged when assembled. The Wear Button presses on the Thrust Button to DISengage the clutch. This is why you should try to avoid running the engine with the PTO disengaged when possible---wear on those buttons.

Thanks Matt, I should have made that a little more clear I guess. There I go assuming again. I do try and get paint on the inside of the rear pressure plate that isn't in contact with the disc; it's the portion where the bolts go through to accept the jam nuts on the backside. It is always rusty and I think the way this thing spins it will sling rust particles out towards the disc. I've noticed if these things sit for a year or so which isn't uncommon and someone goes to use them that's when the rust will sling. That's also why the pto always comes off when I get a tractor here and begin work to get it running. I've seen so many with rust caked between the pressure plates and the disc.

Here's one I'm assembling today. It could use a little more paint but some is better than none. I hope it can be seen well enough.

OK.. I've got the parts ordered from a local dealer and they should be in soon. I'm cleaning the pressure plate and pulley assembly, Painting where suggested, as well as cleaning the paint off of the nickle machine screws.

The one thing I'm having one heck of a time with is the PTO bearing collar. I've smacked that thing pretty hard and I can't get it to move.. there was no nut on mine just the set screw. I've hit it with PB a couple of times but I'm nervous about any PB getting behind the basket and pulley into the main bearing or any seal back there and trashing the seal.

I'm going to hit it with PB again.. but I'm figuring a standard hammer and punch should be moving this thing right? Cause mine isn't moving at all.. I'm doing this with the front still installed... just removed the grill... so I'm not really bashing the daylights out of it..

Labrati-

You might try tapping in the other direction. I have come across locking collars that weren't installed correctly. If that's the case here you're just tightening it. Th PB shouldn't get to the crank seal so I wouldn't worry about it doing any damage.

Myron-

If the pto is working correctly there shouldn't be any problem running the engine. When disengaged the pto stops turning and when engaged the wear button should have a clearance between it and the thrust button. I agree if the wear button is touching the thrust button with the pto engaged it won't last long at all. This is easily corrected with an adjustment of the pto lever control rod.

Wshytle: When the PTO is disengaged the wear button is depressing the thrust button. That means that, while the belt and disc aren't moving, the shaft is turning and the buttons are wearing on each other. Please reread your service manual for details of the PTO operation.

Thats true. When pto is disengauged, you can see that the pto is not spinning...but that is not so with mine, as the pto spins no matter where I have the engaugement leaver. I rember that clearly now. This pto would not spin with the motor running when disengauaged. Very annoying problem we got here. In the mean time, I'll be reviewing the manual and reading close to this post.

See, I may differ, because I never took my pto a part.......only off to remove the basketpully on to the fresh motor. The wear button and thrust button dont look good. Unless the eccentric locking collar setscrew and locknut is pushing against one of the throw-out lever screw jam nuts????.......Or I bet you 2 dollars to a donut that I got those darn 1/2 cone point hex-soc-hd. setscrews on the bearing. I'am no wizz at this. I will take a look in a day or so as I'am gonna have to get some parts. Is this a few good possiablities to the problem?? Thanks, John

Myron-

I don't need to "reread" to manual on pto operation any more. I learned as a younger man if the pto and the engagement lever are properly adjusted the button will last a long time as IH had intended. Why would they wear quickly if the pto isn't turning? Engine vibration? If what you say is true then every time someone wants to just ride, plow, pull a harrow or a yard trailer they should engage the pto to keep the wear button off of the thrust button.

I'm a little in a fog as to why we are even discussing this.

WShytle: The discussion ensued when I quoted the proper operating procedure from the IH Manual and you chose to argue...PLEASE READ THE NOTE: IN THE UPPER LEFT COLUMN. This is from Page 13, Operator's Manual, International Cub Cadet 71,102,122, & 123 Tractors,IH Publication 1 082 592 R2, dated 2-15-67. 'Nuff said.

Tonight I finally got the collar loose.. it involved an improvised punch, namely a 2ft long drill bit to get it to budge.. but now, of course I can't get the bearing off of there.. been soaking in PB... any thoughts on how to "encourage" it to free itself?

Also the PTO pulley set screws, there are only two.. one is completely buggered.. no threads.. the current set screws just slide right through. Should I just re-thread and put another set screw in there? Or run it with just two?

Last.. the S/G basket pulley.. that thing seems to be on there just as tight as the bearing.. when giving it a yank the whole shaft can move about a 1/16 or less... normal? and any ideas on encouraging that bad boy to slide on off appreciated as well.

thanks

Try this: "Removing the Front PTO and Basket Pully" Written by Mr.Paul Funk. You can find this at http://www.cubcadetman.com . I realy got lucky with removing the basket pully.

WOW! I'm probably just going to clean and paint the front of the basket pulley when I manage to get the PTO bearing off of there.. Very informative write-up and I used similar ideas on my adventure with the PTO pulley... I don't have the second set of set screws in there and like I said I'm completely missing one set screw, so I guess I'm going to thread that buggered out hole and put my own in there.. I ordered a set with my parts (fingers crossed they come in today).. but I'll still also need the other two short "locking" set.. at any rate.. the basket pulley removal (unless it just pops off when I remove the PTO bearing) is just more than I bargained for.. and the deeper I go the more I'm finding and rebuilding.. and at some point franken127 has to go back to work...

What about using a bearing/gear puller or tie-rod puller to get the bearing off of there?

well, I ended up having to use a bearing puller to remove the bearing.... to get the puller in there the entire front had to come off, mule drive, sub-frame... ahhh good times... the shaft where the PTO bearing was has a bit of a bugger in it.. sort of a secondary grove (not the woodruff grove)... at any rate.. I'm leaving it off until I get the new bearing installed...

Looks very familiar. Here's from when I was pulling the pulley/basket assembly off. Boy, what a pain!

Spray some PBlaster on the areas you can see. Maybe one day when you decide to pull your pulley off, you'll appreciate what you did.

Have fun!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...2072Medium.jpg

Yeah... I'd figure using a harmonic balancer puller would work.. but frankly.. I just need to get back to mowing... so the s/g pulley will have to wait...

Picked up a bearing at NAPA today.. just got it on.. holy moly.. does that thing really need a locking collar? Took half an hour with a rubber mallet and a block of wood to get it flush!

I've had the PTO pulley with one set screw soaking in PB for about 4 days.. alternating between inside and outside of screw... still can't get screw to budge... so is the torch next? I've never been forced to loosen anything with a torch.. so procedure would be appreciated... all I have is a hand-held propane big-box store deal.. just the cannister type..

Also, I've got one of the holes for the set screw that is completely buggered.. stripped totally out... what would the thought be on coating the inside with JB weld and perhaps threading that? I guess I could thread for a larger set screw.. but then to balance wouldn't I need to have the same size set screws in each hole?

You might be able to helicoil that. Don't bother with JBcan'tWeld, it isn't going to help you at all.

You would really need to heat the casting around the stuck screw until it glows, but you will not be able to do that without a more serious torch.

With that bearing, I take it you didn't clean the crankshaft and put some anti-seize compound on it...the bearing should slide on easily by hand. Now you're going to have a hard time getting it off again should you need to.

I did clean the shaft. When it wouldn't go easy the first time I even got after it with an SOS pad. It was shiny. I ended up lubing with WD-40. There is no way any anti-sieze was going anyplace but the woodruff channel. The other bearing required a puller even after the collar was off.

I'll check out helicoil. Thanks.

Finally have "most" of the parts... I had to drill out one of the conical set screws last night.. just refused to budge... but I think I left enough to tap that to fit a normal size set screw.. now of course, I'm down a set screw.. actually don't have the second set of screws for each either..

So tonight I'll be tapping one hole, passing the tap through the only good hole and hopefully finding a helicoil at the local parts place.. although I note a lot of the helicoils have a little end piece that goes over one end.. I would think this might interfere with the point on the conical set screw..

Removed the PTO rod wear button and had fun getting the new one in there.. tight fit!

Hopefully by Thursday or Friday I can have the PTO rebuilt and mow the jungle..

The pressure disk kit did come with the anti-rattle springs and the guide tool.. oddly enough in a sealed bag the guide tool looks like it's been in the bottom of someones tackle box...

New to me 107 needs new basket pulley...
 

I found this thread by accident and I just picket up a 107 with a 12hp engine. Everything ran, the mower mowed etc. later the same day I got it I began hearing a clanking sound towards the front of the engine. It sounded like a loose pulley.
The next day I went to start it like the day before but it just cranked. It sounded weird and wouldn't start. Then I stood off to the side and turned the ignition. I watched the starter generator turn the belt but then I noticed the basket pulley turning, but the engine wasn't! No wonder it was so quiet!
I stopped what I was doing, got on my knees and turned the basket pulley by hand... it turns out that the pulley is actually broken all the way around about an 1/8" away from the shaft, so the pulley is just spinning freely over it's broken keyed hole.
Now I have the PTO off and I'm at the bearing. The bearing isn't even flush with the end of the shaft. I loosened the set screw and tapped the collar clockwise a little.
My wife has my puller in her car so I can't do anything until she gets back. But tomorrow I'm going to pull the bearing, lift off the pulley and have to deal with a metal ring that was the pulley stuck to the shaft.
I just soaked it in PB and will deal with it tomorrow. Since I'm not saving any pulley I imagine I can do almost anything including hacksaw to get off the remnants of what 's left. Damn other peoples hamfisted repairs! (I did get it cheap so I guess I get what I paid for. But when it ran it sounded good, forward and reverse and the deck was smooth.).
Anybody seen that before?

Labrati and all others interested: Please let me give you a big clue!

The WD in WD-40 stands for Water Dispersant!! And it does do that.

It is NOT a lubricant!!! Nor is it a Penetrant!!

Along with the collection, with "just a few" mechanical PTO's, I am also an antique clock collector and repairer. Let me tell you that if you put WD 40 in clocks, locks, guns or sewing machines where the carrier material (which people think is a lubricant) gets between close fitting metal parts, it will dry up and become concrete. I have made many a dollar chemically cleaning that crap out of spring wound clocks because some ignorant owner sprayed WD-40 in it and couldn't understand why his clock refused to run any longer. You leave that bearing on that shaft with WD-40 residue on there for a about 10 years or so, you may need a cutting torch to get it off.

PB blaster is a good brand of penetrant which works! By using Anti-sieze compound (I get mine at NAPA) any place there is metal to metal contact will ensure it will come off the next time you need to remove the item. This is especialy true with the PTO Set Screw and the Bearing surfaces (both inner and outer!) of the PTO.

I recommend that you have a machinist drill and tap that stripped hole for a slightly larger thread and slightly larger set screws. Make sure you have the replacements on hand first! Dont rethread for set screws you can't find. The super small amount of weight difference plus the very small radious involved will make almost NO difference in the "Balance".

CAUTION!! Remember the pointed ones must go in first to grab the back side of the bearing race and the "flat" bottomed ones go in on top for "lock screw" purposes. If you reverse that and jam one of those points into the hexhead of the bottom one you will likely have to drill it out. BTDT!! You have now been warned...(:-}>...

Thanks. It's installed and running fine. Rethreaded one 1/4x20, had to helicoil the other. Helicoil insert wasn't long enough to put second set screw in. I actually plan on a muffler replacement & will replace the PTO pulley this winter. I'll probably resurface the shaft & replace the bearing again & that time. Right now I had to get it operational.

I must say that the clutch rebuild is manageable & no one should be afraid of rebuilding. The bearing and the anti-rattle springs were the largest challenge. If everything else had worked the rest would have been relatively painless.

Thanks for your tips on your experience with WD.

Librati... IH put the second (Lock) set screws in because a single one will vibrate out...That's why I recommended taping and threading for a slightly larger set of set screws!! You need TWO in each hole!! So if the Helicoil only allows the one set screw..you have set yoursef up for a bit of a problem when that set screw eventually vibrates out... Think about it...

Yeah, I've been thinking abut that as well... The kit came with plenty of Helicoil inserts, it's just breaking off the threading arm when it's half-way inside the hole... that's the challenge... it wasn't a problem on the first one.. but on the second one it's a real issue.. although I took some measurements last night and it appears that the 1/4 - 20 x 1/2 set screw (this is the conical one) has enough protruding above the top of the helicoil that I can simply use a set screw that is the same thread pattern of the helicoil insert and use that for the summer.. The helicoil threading job I did wandered about > 1mm out of dead center so I want to replace the pulley.. so either one will come up on #bay or I'll purchase one from a sponsor by the winter and do another rebuild... or I'll strike it rich and buy a parts tractor.. I know where 3 are... but.. just cant fork over the dough..

Where can I get the triangular thrust plate for a Cadet 126?
 

I'm looking for just the triangular plate that's in the PTO on a Cadet 126. Anyone know where I can get one? The rest of the unit looks good but that part is broken. Thanks!

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