Broke my 1200
 

I was out mowing the other day and my 1200 clutch wouldn't stay engaged. Luckily I was towards the bottom of a hill and smoothly pulled into a level area. Looked it over and the clutch was slightly disengaged, even with the pedal all the way up. The driveshaft certainly didn't shrink, and the transmission didn't shift back, so somehow the engine must have moved forward :confused:

Looked it over and saw I sheared a bolt on my front engine mount, along with my muffler mounting bolt. Fortunately I didn't break the repair weld on the header side. Apparently hitting a tree stump in 2nd gear isn't a good thing to do :bash:

I went out this evening and was moving along smoothly replacing the bolt on the engine mount. To my surprise I was able to get the muffler bolt out of the mounting hole using a screw extractor. Came out clean, threads looked good. Everything was moving along smoothly... and then.... I noticed the engine mounting bolt was sheared too :bash2: (see 3rd picture)

Soon.. I think I know the answer here, but I'm guessing I shouldn't operate this until I get that bolt extracted and replaced. What's my best course of action here. Does anyone think I could get the bolt out from under the tractor without pulling the engine?

Guess I better get this 149 running so I can haul it over to mow grass and sneak the 1200 in to repair. Maybe I can convince my wife it's the same tractor and BOTH don't need fixed ....

Those pesky tree stumps! Well to be honest, pull the engine and save yourself all the headache of trying to leave it and get the bolt out. It's not hard to pull the engine, I've done it several times! Not bad choice either.

You may get that broken oil pan bolt out clean. Sounds like you already know that these situations are always a crap shoot.

Yes, don't use it until it's fixed.

Quiet Line tractors get a bad rap because the motor mounts wear out after 35 or 40 years and people continue to use them that way compounding the problems.

Try to put a little money aside along the way and plan to do a little work on the 1200, do the cradle modification, maybe replace the oil pan with a cast iron one, replace worn motor mounts and any worn drive line parts. Put it back together the way it was when new and use it for another 40 years. You may end up spending 2 or 3 hundred dollars (depending on how bad things are and if you need your clutch rebuilt and so on). OR you can go spend $2500.00 on a new POS that won't last 10 years.

Facts are facts, if you spend a few dollars at a time on an old piece of equipment, it can work hard for you for years to come. It's still cheaper than buying new every few years.

As for the wife thing... Take her with you to look at new equipment and remind her that it will wear out in a short time and let her do the math. Maybe you can suggest that you buy her a push mower and cut your costs WAY DOWN.

The bottom line is that Old Cubs are by far cheaper than new equipment, but old or new, you still have to maintain them. And messin around with your old Cubs will definitely keep you out of the girly bars!

Good luck on all fronts.

Always something isn't it Jason! I'd pull it, easiest way.

Always. I cut the whole field 3+ ft high grass without any major issues. Now that it's knocked down I throw her in 2nd and BAM.

Yosemite, I agree it's worth putting the money into, the issue right now is I'm trying to cut costs without causing damage. In a year or two I plan on putting all new wearable driveline items in.

I just installed solid motor mounts, so I'm good there.

As for pulling the engine, it's out in the middle of my land I bought, so that may be tricky, and I'd rather not mess wth getting it on my trailer.

I'm going to head out early this weekend and pull the engine rail out and see how good of an angle I can get at the bolt with a screw extractor. I'm go slow and cautious. If it doesn't look good, I'll pull the engine.

Looking it over, if I pull the bolts on the pedestal fir the fuel tank mounts, and disconnect the choke/throttle and wires to the starter, should the whole assembly, feul tank and all come out together?

I have my trailer out there, so I suppose I could set it on that a some blocks to work on it. I don't have any sort of an engine stand though. So I might have as good of luck pulling the engine rail and working with it sitting on the frame.

Lastly, does anyone know what size that bolt is? I can't find it on the parts finder online.

I'll take any tips on engine removal, and report back on my luck.

SUCCESS!!

I was able to slide the rail out of the way enough to get a good clean view of the broken bolt. Got my drill in there and it came right out. :beerchug:

I didn't have any bolts with me as I wasn't sure of the size. So I took out the other mount bolt and picked up a couple grade 8 tonight. They are 3/8 - 16 x 1" bolts.

I'll throw them in Saturday morning and get back to mowing :D

Now back to the 149...

Good deal!

AANNDD.... Failure

Got the engine bolted up real nice and tight, still had a little trouble getting the clutch dialed in, but figured I'd drive it a little and see how it felt. Nada. Nothing. Zip. Zilch.... The drive shaft was spinning up front, but the transmission wasn't moving in the back. So I figured my roll pin sheared that I put in as a temporary fix. Pulled off the tunnel and nope. It was good.

And then I looked at the driveshaft.... I posted 1000 words below to describe it :bash2:

Fortunately I have another one sitting around. So I just need to re-read TwoTon's write up and make me a jig. Then, hopefully I can be back on my merry way.

FYI. I decided to just pull the engine this time. My back is going to hate me for it, but it was a heck of a lot easier to pull the drive line out.

I'll post back once I get everything apart so you guys can all make sure I put the parts back in the right order...

Sorry that hear about your recent problems! Mine broke last fall in nearly the same spot. Did it break where a spiral pin goes through? That's where mine broke, only thing is that the hole in the driveshaft wasn't even being used. It was under or behind( was covered ) by the spring. I'm curious too, is that a new release arm? How long does it measure? Is it shorter than the original? Did you have difficulty adjusting the clutch? I tried a new one from cub cadet and gave up. The new ones are shorter the oem ones. I ordered one from a place that makes parts for pullers. Its longer than the new ones from cub. Im gonna shorten it to the original length and redrill the hole. Oh Jeff in pa makes driveshafts. I'd send him yours and have him make one.

Yep, broke in the empty hole under the spring.

I'm not sure about the arm, I ordered the whole driveshaft, clutch and all off e-bay because the hanger that was in my 1200 when i bought it was off a narrow frame. But the slot did appear to be too short, I put spacers under the bolts on the mount, to shift it down. I thought it was something with my tractor or the solid mounts I put in. But judging by the black enamel on it, I'd say it's not IH original. I posted a couple pics of it. You can see where the TO bearing was riding on it. Also if you look at the bottom, the spacer was rubbing on it, that's why I put spacers under the bolts on my arm mount.

I have the driveshaft that came out of my tractor originally. I just need to disassemble it and swap the release arms. But now you have me thinking maybe I should find another arm....

Looks like the weather will be nice tomorrow. So I think I'm going to build a jig to disassemble the clutch using TwoTon's tutorial. I have a feeling I'll end up doing it more than once...

I saw Jeff in PA makes shafts. I don't think he needs my old one, he has all the measurements on hand. But I'm hoping to use the one I have.

I've got the fenders off the 149 and am de-gunking it now. I think I've found a pressure line for the hydraulics. By the end of the summer I should have at least one working Cub at a time :cool:

At least I got the hay knocked down and the weather has turned. I might end up dragging my Gravely walk-behind out next and see if I can get it going ...

That throw out lever is IH original. My 1000 that I have known since almost new had an identical one in it that was painted black.

I highly recommend Jeff in PA for a driveshaft. I replaced my clutch this spring and he made me a new one. I sent him my original shaft so he should have the dimensions.

I bought all new parts from vendors on this site. I had to replace everything down to the hanger. The clutch is smooth and quiet the way it was new. I hope I get another 39 years out of it.

Bob

Thanks for the confirmation on the hanger Bob.

A little background, the driveshaft that was in the 1200 when I bought it had the wrong hanger on it. A couple eagle eyed members caught it when I was trying to work out the sloppy pedal. As I was looking for a new/used hanger, i found the whole driveshaft assembly. So I picked it up and swapped it. The clutch on the replacement was pretty worn, so my guess is everything was original too.

I still have the old assembly with the wrong hanger. I'm going to take it apart and put the black hanger on, and reassemble it.

I built a Jig per TwoTon's specs. I'll get a few pics up once I get it all together. I plan on replacing the entire driveline at some point. But for now, I'm ok using the old parts so long as they don't cause any damage. I don't see how they could.

On a side note, I ordered some 1/4" ID fuel line. The line cracked when I was pulling the engine on the 1200, so I took the piece home with me. It looks bigger than the 1/4" I bought. Perhaps it is stretched, but my guess is it's 3/8" hose. Does anyone know the size of the fuel line?

I bit the bullet and replaced everything in between the engine and transmission on my 1000. You can read more here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=43135

From the link this is what I bought new:

Driveshaft
T/O Bearing
Hanger bracket
Hanger pin
3/8" sproil pins
1/4" sproil pins
Teaser spring
Teaser spring cup
T/O Bearing
Lubricating bushing
Pair of spherical bushings
Rag joint

I bought a clutch disc when I got the tractor back in 2013.

It was more than I wanted to spend but I know it is right and I won't have to mess with it again for 40 years. By that time it will be one of my boy's problem.

I don't have a spring compressor. What I do it put the driveshaft in the frame with the engine out and connect the rear rag joint. It goes in with the rear spring pin installed. The spring, T/O bearing and lever, pin and bracket go on the shaft. I attach the linkage to the lever and don't thread the nut down. Next, I zip tie the clutch/brake pedal up. I then push the lever back against the spring and have my wife connect the linkage. Then I can run the nut down and put the pedal down. I can then assemble the rest of the clutch. Be sure to suport the driveshaft if you drive the front pin in with a hammer. I use a clamp and socket to press the pin in.

I am not sure what diameter the fuel hose is on a QL. Both of mine are original and doing fine. I can check to see if they are marked tomorrow. if it will help. Let me know

I think that release lever is, like one I bought from cub cadet. It looks awful short. I will measure my original one. If I remember right the new one I had bought was 1 1/2 -1 3/4 shorter than the original. It's strange that your new release lever looks chewed up like my original was before it broke in half. I'll measure my original. I'm still going to do what I stated in my earlier post (shorten the new one I ordered). Oh did your 1200 have two rag joints in the rear? Mine did originally, that how I put it back together. Tried one and had to much movement in the driveshaft.

Thanks for the tip on assembling the clutch Bob. My tractor is out in the middle of some land I bought a couple months ago. I have the driveshaft here at my home. I'm using a jig from this thread

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...837#post311837

hopefully it works ok. As for the fuel line, if it's easily marked that would help. But I have the original hose, I can take it to a parts store and match it up.

Brian, if you could measure your original arm, that would be great. What do you mean by too short? The hole where the driveshaft goes through, or the overall length to the adjustment hole? I had no trouble adjusting mine, but it appears as though the bearing was rubbing towards the bottom, as though the hole for the driveshaft wasn't low enough. But perhaps the broken driveshaft had something to do with that. Comparing the wide frame arm to the narrow frame that was on the tractor before, it's a little longer.

If you look at the break on the driveshaft, it doesn't appear 100% clean, as though it had been cracked for a short period of time, perhaps causing the driveshaft to be a little bent. I posted a couple pics. It sat for about a week before I removed it, so there is a little rust on the whole joint, but towards the top it's a little rough and appears to have more rust than the rest.

My tractor only has one rag joint. But there isn't much play on the driveshaft. If I remember correctly, they started using 2 joints after a certain s/n.

I like that clutch assembly jig. If I had more Cubs I would make one too. If you are working in a field that jig is a necessity. I had the luxury of working in a garage at home.

I have a feeling the blue spring may have contributed to the driveshaft breaking. You found the weak link when the force went up. My clutch was slipping when I rebuilt it. My brother had the tractor and used it with a locked up throwout bearing. It tore up the release arm and put steps in the drivesahft. I replaced the bearing and arm when I got it along with the disc just to get it running. The bearing would hang up on the steps and not allow the clutch to fully engage.

I was tempted to go with a stronger spring but decided not to. I am not pulling anything heavy and remembered that this tractor would spin the wheels before the clutch would slip. I kept the original spring and have had no problems.

I'll take a look to see if the fuel line is marked up and send you the correct spec. IH didn't use anything exotic on these tractors so I suspect it is a common, easy to find hose.

Don't be discouraged by the condition of your 1200. It will cost you some money now but if you fix it right it will serve you for decades to come. My tractor was given to me by friends in the neighborhood I grew up in. I have known it since new in 1977. It has been a reliable machine for almost 40 years and with a little TLC will serve for 40 more.

My youngest brother had my 1000 for 4 years and I was sick when I saw it. He drove it into the ground and wasn't running when I got it back. The clutch was the most expensive repair I had to do to it. I did a band-aid repair initially then fixed it right. My advice is do it right and you won't have to do it again.

I really wish my neighbors bought a 1200 new. They had a 122 as well and the additional 2 HP made a difference. The 1000 reminds me of them every time I get on it and I wouldn't sell it for anything.

Those pics aren't of my clutch. I copied the jig he made. I'm using the stock spring for now at least.

Thanks. I'm sure it's a standard size, I just want to make sure i have the right one before I get out in the middle of a field lol

I've been nothing but impressed with my 1200. I've gotten my money's worth out of it already. And honestly, this failure is my own stupid fault. I cut 5 acres of 3+ foot tall grass/weeds with it and it did great. Took 2 passes in 1st to get it knocked down. Then I threw it in 2nd to cut it again and nailed a tree stump. I should have known better and taken the time to mark them all after the first cutting. Bumping a stump in 1st isn't too bad. They are all now a nice shade of fluorescent orange with flags all around em.

Broke a mounting bolt on my muffler and engine. I'm all but sure the hit put the nail in the coffin for the driveshaft, even though I used it for a good hour after.

Once we build, and I finally have a garage, I plan on doing a thorough replacement of all the wear items in the driveline and cleaning it up really nice. No intentions a full resto, I like em rugged :)

I couldn't believe how well the 12hp knocked down this hayfield. It never bogged down. I can't say as much for larger hp tractors I've used in the past. It's amazing how much torque these single cylinder engines put out. HP and an extra cylinder isn't always better. When you need to do work, torque is king.

I picked up a 149 a few weeks ago, so if 12hp can't get er done, I've got a couple more on the bench :D

I grew up on a 108 and worked at the neighbor's place. They had a 122 and the 1000 that I now own. I have Hytran in my veins and yellow fever bad. I picked up a basket case 1450 that I fixed up. I use it to till my wife's garden and other yardwork. Cub Cadets are workers that's for sure.

I also have a Lickety Log Spliter that has a 8 HP Kohler engine on it. IMHO there's no engine better than a Kohler K series. I don't think we'll see many of the current production small engines in 40 years.

You made a good choice to get a second CC while you are getting your place ready for building. Once you have a place to work and can get the 1200 restored you won't have any problems. Until then a second tractor is a good idea. The trouble with them is they tend to multiply...

I was really just looking for a blade and maybe some wheel weights. I paid what I was willing to pay for those, for the whole tractor. Even if it didn't run, it as a no-brainer, given most parts are interchangeable.

Somehow, my wife doesn't see it that way :BlahBlah:

I just keep reminding her I have less in these 2 tractors than I would in a new one that is 1/10th the quality. I can't imagine what damage I would have done to a new tractor hitting that tree stump. It would have been a lot more expensive than a couple grade 8 bolts and new driveshaft. And hey, I enjoy tinkering with this stuff anyway. I'd rather it be on my terms, but oh well. You roll with the punches.

Got the clutch apart. I made the wooden jig using TwoTon's specs in his write up. Worked great!

Now to the real question, what order do these parts go back on? The first pic is how they came off, I think the spacer is out of order and the teaser spring should be touching the pressure plate. here is how I think it goes. I've read a few threads and I think this is right. This also matches the service manual.

pressure plate -> teaser spring -> spacer cup-> release arm -> throwout bearing -> spring?

Does the teaser spring go inside the cup? That's also how it appears from the manual.

Another interesting thing I noticed, there isn't a hole under the spring like on the one I broke..

Yup, 3/8"

Great job on the jig there Jason. Good to see you makin' some progress.

Thanks for the confirmation on the hose size.

And, thanks again for detailing the clutch install in your thread. Looks like I did read it right :)

Hopefully I can find a place that stocks spiral springs locally, then I'll be good to go.

Want me to mail you a couple? I have to go to the post office tomorrow to mail Zippy's parts. We can even up later. :beerchug:

If you could that would be awesome!

Let me know if you need my info again.

Thanks!!!

Got your info :beerchug:

I'll send 4

I measured the original release arm. 9 3/4" long. The problem I had was with the new one I had. It was shorter and the clutch rod was in a higher position than the other. New one on the way now. What I used to disassemble my clutch and driveshaft was my drill press! Works for me! What's your release arm measure?

Here is what mine looks like.

Roughly 8 1/8" long. I never had an issue though with adjusting it. My main concern was that it appears as though the actual hole for the driveshaft was too short, as it appeared to be rubbing. But I think that's because the spacer cup was put on backwards, and possibly my driveshaft was already cracked and out of balance. With it flipped around the right way, I don't think that will be an issue.

What are the measurements of the actual cutout for the driveshaft on yours? Mine is about 4" to the bottom of the hole. But the narrow frame hanger I had before appears to be the same, and it didn't rub on it. The 2nd picture shows the narrow v wide frame.

Sent :beerchug:

Thank you sir!!

Mine measures 2" like yours. What's your serial number? 650604 is mine.
Mine has an internal brakes. Does yours?

S/N 588344 - 1976

My concern was the driveshaft opening, but it appears those are the same, The overall length and position of adjusting rod is what's different. I didn't have much issue adjusting mine.

I have internal wet brakes, that changed at SN 568631 according to tractordata.com

Mines April 79 near the end. New release arm should be here tomorrow ! Hopefully I can work on it this weekend!

Let me know how it goes.

I'm waiting on spirol pins to arrive and I need to order a rag joint. You guys convinced me to spend the $15 now and get a new one. I'd hate to tear one and break ANOTHER driveshaft, or something worse. All over a $15 wear item.

Of course it's supposed to be beautiful this weekend here. Mid 80's and low humidity, and I don't have a running Cub to paly on :bash2:

Yeah better to go ahead and replace the rag joint now. For those that are interested my new release arm measures 10" old one 9 3/4" so I'm thinking it had a extended length arm already on it.

Oh Jason, what's low humidity?? Ours has been running 85% -94% !! Hate muggy weather!

Making some progress, slow and steady. I got the driveline back together today. Thanks Jeff for saving my sanity by looking all over town for spiral pins and sending me a few with my PTO button.

I posted some pics before and after. Please look them over and let me know if I got something wrong. I also painted the solid mounts I got from Jeff.

I also noticed one spring appeared to be shorter than the other. Looks like it's just worn a little more and more compressed. I used the longer one.

Not sure when I'll get to put it in, probably not until next weekend, when I have some time to go out to my property and work on it.

Gonna go wrench on the 149 a little now.

Got the driveshaft back in and mowed for a few hours this morning.

Then.... as I was finishing up and getting ready to put the tractor away, it shut off. Not sure if maybe it overheated? It will turn over fine, and sounds like it's firing as it turns over. I checked the plug wire and it's connected at both ends. Plenty of gas. I ran it for 3 hours straight, it was 85 degrees by the time I finished up.

I was done for the day, so I just put it away. Gonna go back out in the morning to see what I can figure out. I'll take any suggestions. Will the coil and condenser work from my 149? I can rule that out at least.

Its. Always. Something.....

It's possible it may be the coil. Sometimes they work until they get hot. See if it fires up before you start exchanging parts.

Was it spinning over really fast as you cranked it? Could be a stuck valve, they start acting up after running a while. Could also be a coil issue like Jeff talked about. You put more than 3 hrs of gas in it, right? :biggrin2:

Bill

It did seem to be turning quickly. But I was frustrated and worn out by then.

I'm going out this morning to see what it does. I'll report back. I was thinking the coil too.

Gas? These things need refueled after 3 hours...

Believe it or not, on occasion bolts have been known to vibrate loose on these machines, so.. check your battery B- cable to chassis connection for a good ground. I had one fuel tank that had been sitting with old gas in it for an extended period of time and the in tank screen became clogged on the lower section. Tractor would run to 1/4 tank and then die. Also, wouldn't be the first time that a spark plug just up and failed.