1200 Clutch Question
 

I finally got some time to work on my 1200. The clutch appears to have way too much play. I started to adjust the lever to alleviate it, but it seems like I am adjusting it way too much.

Here are a couple pics I snapped. Comparing this to the service manual it looks like the throw out bearing and spring spacer are there. The only thing missing is the teaser spring. I tightened the adjusting nut to remove most of the play and the clutch seems very tight. Also, I can't see the clutch releasing when I press it. Should I see the discs move apart?

The last picture is the play left when the plate starts to contact the throw out bearing. You can see how far I've adjusted it, it was in front of the worn threads.

Is the teaser spring integral, or does it just keep slack out of the pedal?

If it "seems" like your adjusting it too much..... back it off.

Clutch adjustment on these machines isn't rocket science. The pedal should disengage the clutch and apply the brake. As long as it's not so tight that the lever is touching the throw out, your good. As long as it disengages the clutch completely, it's good. Book explains how to adjust it if your still confused.

Teaser spring is to give the clutch a smoother engagement. Has nothing to do with the clutch pedal.

Should you see the plates move... well, the lever just releases spring pressure, it doesn't actually pull them apart, so... you may not see them move.

looks like you have it put together incorrectly.

It goes main spring,t.o. beaing,spacer cup,large end facing the motor,then the teaser spring.

Thanks. There is still about 1/2" off play between the throwout bearing and the clutch fork/plate. It drove fine and seemed to disengage the clutch when I bought it, so I'm assuming it releases. Just wanted to make sure I shouldn't see it physically moving. Makes sense the way you explained it. Since it worked ok when I got it, maybe I'll back it off more for now.

I didn't put anything together. I suppose the PO could have. Looking at the schematic (#5 doesn't apply to my S/N) is #7 spring spacer missing? Does the pressure plate go in front of (to the right on schematic) the roll pin? If so, it looks like the spacer is gone. If so, that would explain the play in the pedal.

Thanks again for the input!

It also looks like the po has the wrong clutch arm on it there should be no space between the arm and the bracket.

Hmmm.

That would explain the crazy vibration I get too. It runs smooth when I have the clutch depressed. But once I release it, in gear or N, I can hear it shaking and vibrating. I just assumed the holes had worn on the arm, but looking at that picture, it does look like there's too much space.... That would explain why it's rubbing on the steering bolt too. Not sure if you can tell on the pic I attached, but the clutch arm/fork slightly rubs on the end of the steering bolt.

I also see sparks when I release the clutch, so something's not right in there. I'm going to price parts and at least replace the throw out bearing and get a new spacer and teaser spring. Depending on how much the rest costs, I may do a full replacement. I'll pull everything later this week and see what's going on with the fork.

Like Jon said, the clutch on these isn't rocket science. Like someone already said, that's the wrong arm. Maybe for a narrow frame? I've had mine apart several times. You have it adjusted way to tight. I've never cranked it down like that. Looks too like it had the wrong nut on there an the threads are all messed up now. I'd look at your 3pin driver too it may be cracked. Either way somethings not right no way you should have to adjust it that much.

Think you have a mix of parts. Is the 3pin driver, be solid piece of steel or does in have a thin piece in the center? If I was close by I'd look at it. Get us some more pictures. See if we can get it figured out.

vr4Legacy, Good chance you have a lot of wear in a lot of places that are all adding up to you having to over adjust that release arm to make it work. You're gonna have to go through every part to take out all of that slack. If the ball bushing in the 3 pin driver is worn, and chances are too the end of the drive shaft, it will vibrate/rattle when there is no load on it.

I put a clutch in my 1000 this March. You can find the link here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=43135

I bought all the parts from sponsoring vendors found at the top of this page. I had terrible vibration noise when the clutch was out too. It engages very smoothly now and makes no noise. I had to replace the bracket, pin and lever.

My brother ran the tractor with a locked up throwouut bearing. It wore the shaft and left steps. I put a new T/O bearing on it so I could mow when I got the tractor back. The T/O bearing would hang up on the steps and cause the clutch to slip. Now I can dump the clutch in 3rd gear and spin the tires if I want to.

My suggestion is to spend the money and do it right the first time. I tried a band-aid fix to get it going and wound up doing it over. I am confident I'll get another 38 years out of the clutch the way it sits now. It wasn't cheap but it was worth it.

If you have any questions PM me.

Thanks everyone for the insight.

The e-bay gods were shining upon me today. I picked up a pair of front spindles (to fix another issue) and a driveshaft with clutch and arm assembly all together. Was able to combine shipping and make a deal (at least what I think is a deal).

I'm going to pull the current driveline out later this week and I'll take some pics. The new (used) one should be here Friday. Hopefully between the 2 I should have a stack of good parts.

Bob, thanks for the insight. I've got a cart full of parts ready, just waiting until I get everything out to see if anything needs added last minute.

I'll post pics once I get everything disassembled. (and after too, you guys are great at catching mistakes :) )

Thanks again for all the insight and tips. And sharp eye to darkminion for catching the wrong part!

I agree. That looks like a solid driver which came off a narrow or wide frame. QL tractors had the riveted flex plate. Take a look at my thread at the link I posted above. it has several pictures of the correct OEM QL driver. You can run a older driver if you replace the ISO mounts with solid spacers.

In addition the lever looks to be narrow and the teaser spring and cup are missing. The pin has a big washer on the end that doesn't take a washer. Maybe your bracket is worn like mine was. Looks like someone that didn't know what they were doing was in there.

Is your clutch disc laminated? It looks like it is. The original in my tractor was laminated with a steel plate in the center.

BTW the picture from the manual you have at the bottom of post #4 shows a grease bushing (part #5). This design was superseded by a new throw out bearing that incorporates the bushing in it. I was told that the bearing isn't as good as the original bearing design. I had Jeff in PA make me a driveshaft and grease bushing. I retained the original design and it works great.

I sent Jeff my old driveshaft so he could make a pattern. If you need a new one I would get it from him. He makes high quality parts and is a pleasure to work with.

I also wanted to say that I grew up on my 1000 which some neighbors owned in Illinois. They had no children and had a meticulous 2 acre lot that my brother and I maintained. They gave me the 1000 sometime in the mid 2000s. I will never get rid of it for sentimental reasons but I really wish it was a 1200. In addition to the 1000 they also has a 122 that they bought new. The additional 2HP really made a difference.

You have a very nice model. I hope you get it repaired and back in service soon. If you need any help don't hesitate to ask.

Since your going to install a different driveshaft and hanger and arm you might as well pull the engine too, makes clutch and driveshaft easier to install. If that is a solid 3pin driver I'd get the solid mounts from Jeff , do the cradle mod and check mounting holes on your oil pan. Look at your flex or rag joints as we call them too. Reason that install the solid mounts is if that is a solid driver you will tear something up running the rubber ISO mounts. So I'd get the solid ones. Let's us know if you have any more questions!

It's 3 pieces, I assumed there were metal plates on the outside, with the clutch in the middle, but perhaps not. Or do you mean the friction plate itself is laminated? I'm not sure what you mean by driver. But when I pull everything out I'll post close up pics.

Not what I want to hear when I buy a used tractor... at least the engine fires right up and runs smooth when the clutch is released. So I know the issue is the driveline.

If I need a new driveshaft, Jeff in PA is getting my business. I'm very impressed with what he's posted. I'm hoping that between the old one and the "new" one I'm getting, one will be good.

Thanks, and I hope I get it up sooner than later too :)

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately I am working on this in my backyard, so pulling an engine would be tricky. The current ISO mounts look ok. I intend on replacing the mounts with solid ones eventually, but right now I don't really have the time or resources to do it. If the current set up is wrong (i.e. narrow frame parts) I'm going to swap in the right parts from the driveline I bought.

I have all the parts ready to order from the throwout bearing to the cheater spring, just going to wait for the driveline to make sure nothing else is missing. Depending on how hard it is to remove, I may or may not replace the clutch. I don't want to put a new clutch in without at least resurfacing the plates, and I'd rather avoid that cost + the clutch. The current rag joint looks ok, but for the price I suppose I should just order a new one since I'll have everything else out.

Once we build next year, I'll have a garage, so my winter 2017/18 project is going to be to do a full proper overhaul, including solid mounts. For now I just want to get everything fixed properly. I'm ok using some used parts and replacing them later, so long as they are the right used parts and won't cause failure to other new parts (if that makes sense). I can't see a used clutch damaging anything other than the current clutch and possibly the plates, which will need resurfaced anyway. However, I'd hate to use a bad throwout bearing and damage the rest of the parts i replace.

Short term this thing is really only going to mow grass a pull a trailer occasionally. Down the road I hope to find a few attachments and put it to use.


Thanks again for the help!

The friction plate itself. The original in mine had a steel plate in the center and had friction material bonded to either side. Sadly mine delaminated so I replaced it. The thickness was acceptable but it was falling apart

I'm glad to hear yours runs great. That will save you some money when you get around to a proper overhaul. Mine runs well but smokes when I start it. A rebuild is in it's future but right now there are bigger fish to fry...

I hope you get a decent driveline but bear in mind the original parts are approaching 40 years old. I bought my shaft from Jeff and based on what I recieved I have no reservations recommending his products.

The first time I pulled the engines from my tractors I removed the lower grille and hood as an assembly and picked the engine off the frame - no hoist. They are a little over 100lb which isn't bad for me. Then again I lift weights almost every day.

If you have questions about what parts are correct post pictures to this thread. I am happy to help and I'm sure others here are too

If you are trying to get the tractor "on the road" so you can use it keep in mind that your may wind up redoing some of the work later. I got mine to a point where I could use it and ended up completely rebuilding the clutch because it wasn't functioning properly and it was really noisy because of worn parts. It served me well before but after rebuilding it I am very happy with the results.

The driver is the plate that bolts to the back of the engine. It has three pins sticking out the back that engage the clurch plate. The QL driver plate has a flexible spring-steel plate that is riveted to a thicker steel disc. The center is the thin spring-steel and that part bolts to the engine. The reason they did this is the ISO mounts allow the engine to move. The spring-steel driver plate will flex with the engine.

You have a solid driver plate. It may put stress on the drive line or other parts. You may want to swap over to solid mounts of you keep that drive plate.

Another thing you should look into is the QL cradle mod. The original design was prone to the bolts loosening and the engine sagging in the cradle. The QL pans are aluminum so loose bolts led to stripped holes. Many swap an older cast-iron pan after doing the cradle mod. I installed helicoils and kept the original pans. Either way weld a strip of steel on the cradle and most of the problem will go away.

This is how it starts. You'll find a tiller and a snowblower and a plow and you'll wonder how you ever lived without them. Then you'll want a second tractor so you don't have to waste valuable time changing attachments. Before you know it you'll build a building that is bigger than you'll ever need to store tractors and it will be full. Ask me how I know.

Anytime. Post questions as they come.

I know.. for now I don't have anywhere to store them.. but with 5 acres, I'll be able to justify a handful of tractors to myself. I'm already checking craigslist way too often for deals...

And then you people make it so darn easy to get answers and fix em up. I'm holding this forum liable when my wife starts pushing back lol

We're on 2 acres in Felton, CA. Really I only mow this time of year then it stops raining and the grass dies. I used the 1450 and tiller to make my wife a garden. I probably use the box scraper most of all. I wish I had more property but for around here 2 acres is a lot.

I built a small shed for my tractors, implements, log splitter and general storage. It is full. It isn't that big because of slopes and trees. If you are interested look here: http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36353 I built it over Christmas a little over a year ago. You will see no snow in the pictures BTW. Also I measured the redwood tree that is next to the shed with a theodolite and got 145' tall. It's just a baby compared to some in the area.

I am always on the hunt for old power equipment but there are almost no Cub Cadets out here. I picked up my 1450 and never saw another for over 2 years. I have a old Lickety Log Splitter that I use to get through forks and knotty logs. Piqua Engineering made it and they went out of business in 1982. It is powered by a K181 so I have 3 Kohlers in the shed. I like the quality of old equipment and keeping it alive.

Keep us up to date on your home construction. 5 acres is a nice size. I hope you are able to get some more Cubs for your fleet.

Bob

Here is the "new" assembly I got.

The fork fits the bracket I got, so it appears to be right. The throw out bearing moves smoothly and appears to be newer. I believe the spacer is there too. The cheater spring is missing, but I don't believe that is crucial for operation is it? Just helps with smoother engagement.

I am thinking about bolting this up and seeing how well it works and engages. I know, ideally I should replace the bearing and spacers, but if this works, could I really cause any damage using the old pieces? This assembly came off a 1200. the way I look at it, I wouldn't have touched the clutch if everything ran smooth when I bought it, if I put this in and it runs smooth, I'm not behind any.

I also got my "new" front spindle assemblies. I think I'm going to replace them in a pair. I know they changed after a certain s/n, I figure it can't hurt, and at least I know they are a match. Probably pointless, but it will make me feel a little better lol.

Let me know your thoughts on this driveline and if anything looks out of place.

Thanks!

Well, I got anxious and put the new driveline in.

The only way I could get it out was to unbolt the engine and shift it forward. The service manual doesn't say to do it that way, but I couldn't get it off the pins any other way. Perhaps the different driver has longer pins?

The clutch feels great now and it doesn't rattle like crazy when driving it. There is actually a clutching zone when I use the pedal :)

Here are a couple pics of what was in there. The fork/arm was way too narrow. The pin was also worn as you can see in the pics.

There is a solid driver on the motor. I'm leaving it in there for now, but will keep an eye out for a flex one.

You will likely not find a flex driver that is any good. About your only option is to remove the rubber engine mounts and install solid ones. If you put a solid driver in, it won't likely last very long before it breaks unless you rubber mounts are in tip top shape, something will likely break shortly.

Well, they were a lot easier to remove than I thought. So maybe I'll bite the bullet and get a set. The current mounts appear to be in very good shape, but for $40 I suppose it's cheap insurance.

Once I replace those, I should be good to go with the solid driver then?

That's correct.

Alrighty.

Just ordered some from Jeff in PA. Should be here next week. Hopefully I'll be mowing next weekend :D

Get a solid driver too. I just bought one from Xtreme motorworks.

He already has one on it Brian. :beerchug:

10-4 Jon, been a long day!

Yep. That's why I'm getting the solid mounts. :ThumbsUp:

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Honestly, when I was looking at different tractors, I came across this forum and I think it swayed me a little towards a Cub. You can't beat a knowledgeable and helpful community when it comes to needing to fix stuff. :)

:beerchug:

Looks great Jeff.

Can't wait to get them in. Thanks for the FAST turnaround!!

Please double, triple check you clutch adj. do not get it too tight. I had mine to tight and screwed everything up!

I just saw your post... OUCH!

I will be sure to quadruple check it. That's the last thing I need.

The adjustment seems pretty straightforward. What do you think you did wrong?

Just adj to tight. I had about 1/4-3/8 of threads showing when I adjusted it.

Got the solid mounts today. They look great Jeff, super quick delivery too!

Now I just need a free evening with no rain..

Thanks everyone for the advice and help. Hopefully I'll get to try out the Cub this weekend :)

Put the solid mounts in and got the right belt on. Took the 1200 out today and finally did some mowing with it. It did GREAT until the adjusting nut fell off the clutch rod :bash2:

Finally the mower gods decided to shine upon me though because it was sitting on the mower deck. I couldn't believe it. I'm going to get a lock nut to put on this time. I think I might have had it a little too loose. Any other suggestions to avoid the nut falling off? If I can fit a second nut I plan on doing that too. Maybe some locktite?

Did you have a nylock nut on there? That or two thin nuts so you can jam nut them.

I used the old nut. It looks like it may have been a lock nut at one time. I'm going to get a new lock nut and try that out.

I have 3/8 -24 for the size. Does that sound right?

I used the old nut on my 1000 because it looked like it was spherical where it contacted the clutch throw out arm. Mine felt like it lost the locking feature so I put a second hex nut behind it. I haven't had a problem.

Put a new lock nut on and everything went great. Until.... it just stopped moving. Apparently the roll pin came out of the back of the driveshaft... lesson learned. Don't re-use roll pins. I foolishly reused it when I replaced the drive train. At least it was an easy fix.