782 Repower question
 

Hi all,
I have a 782 with a KT 17 thats got a hole in the block.
My two choices for repowering the 782 is a KT 19 and a Mag 18
I will rebuild both of these so it makes no difference
on the condition of the two candidates.
I am going to use this tractor for mowing if that matters
Just looking for pluses and minuses of each

What would you guys do?

Thanks

My suggestion is.........the M-18.

Don't have to worry about points, condenser, and timing.

:ThumbsUp:

What he said.

M18 if you insist on rebuilding one. If it was my tractor I'd drop a Vanguard in it with a 1641 drive shaft.

Thanks fellas
I will be doing the boring of the cylinders and such at my shop so
I will take some pics of the process
If my kids help maybe some YouTube vids of the m18 rebuild,
Won't be as glamorous as restoring an O or something but still a part
of saving one

The M-18 is a "drop in" fit. The only modification needed is a slight electrical one.

:IH Trusted Hand:

I appreciate your suggestion Sam but I have these two engines already:beerchug:

You better check prices and availability of parts before you get started. You won't be able to find many choices in oversize pistons, if any at all. What is available will be over $100 per piston. Rod choices are limited, and no undersize available. Not much in aftermarket. The machining isn't the problem, it's getting parts.

I say this all the time.... the H-opposed are not worth rebuilding. They are may favorite motor, but they are just too costly to rebuild, and parts are all but non-existent. You really are better off either running them as they are, or going Sams route. Take some time and look at some threads on here of guys who rebuilt them. Most all of them ended up with a pile of money, and the engine failed shortly after. I really urge you not to go this route. But.... like Sam says, It's your money. :beerchug:

I did not look for parts, I just assumed that since it was a Kohler I could get parts.
I'm not into doing something just to prove I can, so the mag is out if it
doesnt run. The guy I got it from says it runs but you know how that goes.
I won't mess with it if it doesn't fire up and sound good.
How bout Onan?
I don't like Briggs

The onan is even a worse money pit than the mag.

Yes, yes they are. And might be harder to get parts for.

If the Mag runs, and doesn't need overhauled, it would be my first choice. If it needs rebuilt, look for a V-Twin Kohler.

Terry

Just a FYI the Vanguard is not a true Briggs.
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/us...ercial-engines

Ok that makes me feel better about the vanguard.
How many you put in Sam?

For awhile there you guys were sucking the will to live right out of me :biggrin2:

Sorry, I meant to include the Vanguard. I agree with Sam. It's fine engine. :beerchug:

Terry

I've done 2 or 3 repowers and I have 3 Vanguards at the moment. Pics are of a 1210 that I used to own. Pretty much the same as a 782 except that it has a manual lift. The motor plate is from a 1440 or 1641, muffler is from a 1440 or 1641, drive shaft is also from a 1440 or 1641. The pump adapter is from Jeff in PA. I used roll plastic to make the duct work between the fire wall and the blower housing. Engine came out of a 2160 Cub. Think I paid about $500 when it was all said and done. Basically what I ended up with was a 1641 with a metal hood and manual lift. Sweet little tractor, kind of wish I didn't sell it.

What are some of the newer numbers like that 2160 that you mentioned, that would have a suitable replacement?

If you look on Craigs list for a used Cub 2160, 2165, 2180 the are Vanguard powered. If you want to use a Kohler CH look for a used 2185 and I know there are others but I'll need to do a little digging for the numbers. If you go Kohler you would use the motor plate, muffler and drive shaft from an 1863 or 1864. The sponsors at the top of the page. They should be able to supply these items.

A lot of guys have replaced their KT17 with the newer OHV Kohler Command CH 18. It is a pretty easy swap. You will need to modify the driveshaft and electrical system.

Terry

Just to back up a bit, I'd put the Mag 18 on the bench and see if it runs first. It just may be OK.

Yes that was what my plan was, but being a pessimist I'm planning ahead

Thanks for the input guys I'll see if I can get to that mag 18 tonite or friday

To show what a Vanguard engine is, we have two auxillary pumps on two fire trucks, one being a brush truck, the other a tanker. They are fire rated pumps, what this means to you is the pump and motor have to run at full load for 24 hours straight to be a certified fire pump. these are, both are Vanguard 18 HP.

Both start and run very well

New aftermarket Kohler .010 rods
I Know nothing about them.
ebay # 300935539787

Oh this will be interesting, something someone, including myself will/maybe able to use for reference in the future.:beerchug: Doesn't have to be "glamorous" just interesting is good with me:bigthink:

Well there is some honest people left in the world because the guy said the
mag 18 ran and it does. Purrs like a kitten, forgot to make a short out wire first
So it was running for like 5 min till I realized I can't stop it

Out with the old:

Now a question for the wiring experts. Would a person put in a switch that would
have the short to ground capabilities?
I'm guessing replace the two prong connector on the tractor with a three prong like the mag has.

Terry

I'm pretty sure that Roland has a wiring diagram for the KT to Mag conversion. I suggest that you send him a PM. Glad to hear that the Mag is a runner.

Thanks Sam.
I think this one of the engines you are talking about:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ra...328280560.html

Do you think it's a little high priced? It's about 3 1/2 hrs from me
I like a spare for things, I know I'm weird:biggrin2:

Price is too high. Last 2160 I bought was $400 for the complete tractor. If you can get the engine and PTO for $400 or so it's not a bad deal.

This 2180 (18hp Vanguard) cost me $500.00 and it was a nice running tractor. Don't be in a rush, they are out there.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep on the lookout now that I know what to
look for

For a 782 repower, what are the pros and cons on using a Briggs Vanguard vs. Kohler Command CH18?

None that I know of. Pretty much your preference. Can't say one is any better that the other. :beerchug:

With a 16 or 18 HP Vanguard from a 2160/2165/2180 into a 782 what modifications are needed? I presume the wiring harness connections have to be sorted out. But will the 782 drive shaft fit as-is, will the PTO shaft need a custom made sleeve, etc?

Small Engine Warehouse has new Vanguards with a 'conversion kit' for $1530 but if I would rather get a good used engine for a lot less and get what is needed for the conversion. But this is new to me and I just don't know what I would need to buy and from whom, and what I would need to do myself.

There is someone an hour from me with a 16HP Vanguard from the CC 2000 series. If the price is right I would buy it, but I don't want to get it home and then find out I am way over my head in trying to make it work in my 782.

If your going to do a DIY Vanguard conversion I suggest a drive shaft, Motor plate and muffler from a 1641 or 1440. You will also need a pump adapter (Jeff in PA is making these) PTO shaft is 1" OD on the Van the KT has a 1-1/8" shaft. You can do it with a bushing and a 1/4" X 5/16" keyway. The bushing needs to be slotted for the 1/4" keyway. These are the McMaster part numbers I used on one that I did.

6381K18 Alloy 932 (SAE 660) Bronze Sleeve Bearing, for 1" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, 4" Length

98491A137 Zinc-Plated Steel Oversized Key Stock, 1/4" X 5/16", 12" Length

Here is a wiring diagram for putting a Magnum 18 in a 782

There are TWO different versions depending on age age of the 782.

:IH Trusted Hand:

The drive shaft and muffler seem to be fairly easy to find and would cost about $200 total. The Engine Mounting Plate Assy (part no. 603-0025) is a bit more challenging and I probably would need to find someone parting out a 1440 or 1641.

It's no big deal to modify the KT/Mag plate. Sam Mac has the dimensions for where to drill the holes.
That's the only difference.

Go to the sponsors at the top of the page good used parts.