Non running 1512
 

I took a gamble on a non running 1512 w/a Kubota diesel, with 947 hours. I had my eye on this tractor for over a year and a couple days ago finally caught the owner at the right time to inquire about it. He said it was parked due to the steering issue, and yes it has a problem there. He wanted more money but when it wouldn't start he said 400$ and get it out of here, so I did.
It has a mower deck that looks to be 48" the tractor needs a lot of maintenance items due to neglect and sitting.
So here is my list of updates before trying to start the beast again
Fuel line, prefilter, and other filter in sight glass, also checking the tank screen.
Air filter
New battery, cables, and glow plugs including the solenoid update
Oil change and filter.
I'm looking for any and all other suggestions.
http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/attac...1&d=1410708194
Front view
http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/attachment.php?
attachmentid=56433&stc=1&d=1410708316
Hour meter
http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/attac...1&d=1410708505
Left side view
http://onlycubcadets.net/forum/attac...1&d=1410708667
Right side view
I want to wait on the starter upgrade cause I have to do the alt belt and front rag joint and I would like to do them at the same time.

Wow, you got a deal! How is the other part of the driveline? Your off to a good start with those repairs. Keep us posted.

The linkages and levers all seem to work, the hydro is down right dirty the cooling fins can not be seen through the grime, I will get all that cleaned up still no visible leaks. That is another item on the list, hytran n filter change and steering gear adjustment or rebuild.

Yep, I agree with Todd. You've got a good list to follow. You stole that diesel. Congrats! :beerchug:

Thanks, I think of It as more of a gamble than a steal. If I get outa work early enough today I'm goin shoppin n hope to get started on this project I am not really fimilar with diesels but I know basics on them.
Here are some dirty hydro pics.

Today I put on new fuel line, and both filters. Oil change with rotella and napa gold filter. New 420 CCA battery. I'm gonna call it a start.
I ordered glow plugs, and an air filter, I also bought 15' of positive and negitive 4 gauge cable and 10 ends I am going to try my hand at crimping. Lol

Dirty hydro

Ok so I installed new NGK glow plugs, although I used the old glow plug wiring for now. I made and cleaned the grounds including the block to frame cable.


I turned the engine over and no start. The fuel lines have been bled at the filter, at the high pressure pump, and at the injector I am getting no more air and fuel is present.
The exhaust smokes like a dark grey, not quite black.
I did notice something I thought was unusual. When my electric fuel pump comes on the small fuel line going from one injector to the other pushes fuel out. I pulled that small line off of the back of the injection pump and it is pumping out of the injection pump without the engine turning over. Is this normal?

i think new rubber lines are needed once they are disturbed they never seal

and you should try 1 of the better looking glo plugs hooked to the harness to see if it gets hot or do a voltage test on the harness

Yep that is the return to the tank.

I am thinking, I have air. I have fresh fuel, I decided to pull the valve cover to conform the rockers are moving and they are.
Is a compression test in order here or does somebody have a better idea? I have not pulled the injectors to check fuel flow yet.

I like that suggestion 444idi. I will hook a plug to the last wire connection and check for it to heat up.

Do you still have the dash indicator hooked up for the old gp's?

Yes I do. All the old wiring is in place for the glow plugs, and the old coil indicator seems to work too.

Ok. Check to see that the glow plugs are actually working. I assume that your glow plugs are still hooked to the ignition switch? Use a test light to see if the GP's are getting power like they should.

How long are you holding them?

If it's blowing smoke, you shouldn't have air. That means your getting fuel.

How long did you let it crank?
Did you crank it while bleeding the lines at the injectors?

I was holding them for about 30 seconds, which is longer than required for the 70 degree temps. I cranked it for 10 seconds or so till the starter bogged down. I did bleed the injectors while cranking the engine.

How many times have you tried starting it? If it had old fuel in the pump, it takes a while to work it through.

How long has it been since this thing ran?
Why did they park it?

Like I said, you need to verify that the GP's are getting power.

I tried several times today. 8 or ten times.
When I got the tractor it was compleatly dry of fuel.
I know for a fact it has not ran it well over a year.
The PO said they parked it cause the steering is loose, and it is quite loose.

Okay, if you put the NGK's in they need 12 vdc and if your dash indicator is hooked up that is a problem. Run a heavy jumper from the battery to the gp's for a good 30 secounds and put the throttle wide open, but get ready to pull it back if it fires off and see what happens.

I like the sounds of that. I did get a silonoid to do the conversion but didn't have the time to complete it. Maybe I jumped the gun on tryin to get it started. Soon as I have time I will complete the GP conversion then try to fire it up again.

Thanks for the help and suggestions

When I replaced the 30 year-old fuel lines on my 782D, I also replaced all the filters AND cleaned the tank out so I could get everything out of the tank while replacing the shut-off valve on the tank. This left me with a fuel system that was pretty close to the state of yours, except the injector pump was positively not full of air. When I had it all back together, I initially just turned the key to the run position to let the electric fuel pump run. I left it in this state for several minutes while watching the fuel in the tank with the tank cover off. I looked in the tank for fuel dribbling back in via the return line from the injection pump. After I had a steady stream of fuel going back to the tank, I cracked the bleed screws to make sure all air was out. A few seconds of turning it over got it running again.
Stupid question - have you checked to be sure the shut-down lever on the injector pump is moving and connected/adjusted as it is supposed to be? If this is mis-adjusted you will have a no start condition also and no white smoke oout of the exhaust while trying to start.

I am kind of an ameture at the diesels, I have 2 levers on the injector pump the top lever moves to what I am going to call wide open with Baraly any throdle lever movement. The bottom lever seems to move more with the throdle lever. Is this the correct orientation? How do I properly adjust this?

Sounds like the throttle lever is working fine. When you move the throttle all the way down to the "off" position, it pulls the fuel shutoff on the pump towards the driver shutting off the fuel. It has minimal movement and only moves when the throttle is down. It is spring loaded. When you move the throttle up, it will open the fuel up on the pump and will have more travel than the shutoff on the pump. So in other words, the one lever has minimal travel and moves fully when the throttle is moved from "off" to "run". The fuel lever will have full movement when the throttle is moved up and down. Clear as mud? :biggrin2:

The guys all have great suggestions. Glow plugs are very important on these Kubotas, let alone other diesels. The glow plug updates make a ton of difference. BTDT. When doing the update, most bypass the indicator in the dash as well. Hoping you get her fired up soon. :beerchug:

Yes supprisingly enough that is clear, the high pressure pump levers seem to be working properly.

No time to enjoy working on the 1512 today. I should have some time this weekend.

When I do the conversion I will run a whole different circuit so to speak, except the key switch. I am thinking about running a small wire to a 12 volt light in place of the dash coil so I will know when it's engaged, also count seconds.

I picked up a 12 vdc LED and ran a wire from the rear GP to it so that will tell when they are powered. Good job so far, bet you'll be rollin coal by Sunday.:biggrin2:

I want to do the same exact thing. Yours looks great. I am chomping at the bit to get working on it again. Thanks again for all the great info and responses.

Some bad news, I unhooked the factory wire going to the glo plugs and ran a jumper wire from the battery directly to them held the wire on it for 30 seconds and tried to start it. Same result, smoke out the exhaust but no start. Also tried to bleed the lines at the injectors again, no air seems to be present. Any suggestions what I should do from here?

OK, so lets try to remember what you have done so far.

Fuel: you replaced all fuel lines, cleaned the tank, cleaned the screen in the tank, and replaced all filters. Fresh fuel and fuel system bled correct? If so, and you have fuel at the injectors, the only thing left could be the injectors themselves not opening, dirty, etc.

Power: all new battery cables, positive and two negatives. Brand new battery. Sounds like you've been trying to start it quite a bit without success. This can eat the juice from a battery pretty quick, especially these Kubotas. Does the battery have a good charge? I've seen batteries turn over these diesels, but not have enough oomph to start them, especially with a worn out starter.

Air: did you check the air filter and replace that? If the screen is missing from the front of the air cleaner, mice can get into the air cleaner and fill it with crap not allowing air flow into the engine. I've seen them packed full before.

So could be injectors, battery or worn starter, lack of intake air.

Just throwing stuff onto the wall to see if it sticks.............:bigthink: :biggrin2:

Anyone (a PO or you) had the pump out of the box on it?

Yes all filters and fuel line replaced screen in tank cleaned. I have been tryin to start it quite a bit, Battery cables and battery are new I have had jumper cables hooked up to keep the battery up. The air filter is brand new and air inlet clear of debris. The starter is factory and not really sufficient. I am also thinking about the injectors.

I unhooked the metal lines from the high pressure pump to injectors. For the heck of it I turned the engine over and two ports let fuel flow out but the port all the way to the front does not seem to be moving no where near as much fuel. Can the pump fail in this way? Are these pumps rebuildable?

Ok I found that the nut on the pump must have loosened when I took the fuel line off I tightened it and have equal flow out of each port now.

So I'm looking for a good how to on cleaning diesel injectors for idiots. I am mechanically inclined but not fimilar with diesels.

Ok I ripped the injectors out and I am keeping them in order. I have to say they are horrible. I'm going to say my problem is right in my hands. Did I get pics? Of course.

They all looked this um good. Lol.

So here is a pic looking down into the cylinder notice the debris around the injector hole.

I took all the injectors out and turned the engine over, it looked like a volcano erupted.


So here's a pic of the cylinders after turning the engine over for a few seconds.

Sorry for the multiple posts but I have not figured out the art of multi pics on one post yet.

This is a pic of all the injectors together little better lighting. All 3 are dirty but the one all the way to the left is badly caked and crispy.

You say the injectors "look horrible". If your talking about the black carbon on them, that's normal. You can't tell anything just by pulling an injector an looking at it. It's not a spark plug.

Since you have them out, why not just send them off and get them rebuilt. NO, before you ask, you cannot do that yourself. Might as well pull the pump and have it rebuilt too. Pull the head and rebuild it. Maybe do a compression check, before you pull the head. The motor may just be worn out. Would probably be easier to do a compression check through the GP holes with the injectors in. Did you ever try giving it a snort of either just to see if it would start? You didn't answer the question as to whether anyone has had the pump out of the box or not? Maybe someone had it out and didn't put all the shims back in. Or coated it with silicone like I see all the time. :bash2:

Here's the deal:

You have an indirect injected diesel that won't start. Here's a list of possible problems:

*Not cranking fast enough
*Glow plugs not working (I think you eliminated that, but you could still have a bad plug)
*Injector is worn out not giving a good enough atomization of the fuel
*Injection pump is worn out. Not delivering high enough pressure.
*Injection timing could be off
*Blown head gasket (low compression)
*Wore out valves (low compression)
*Wore out cylinders (low compression)

Before you took the injectors out, I think I would have pulled and checked to be sure all glow plugs are in fact good and working. (Just hook them up to a battery with a couple of test leads. Make sure not to touch them, they get hot FAST. Or ohm them out.) If your confident they are working. Then, either give it a snort of either and see if it takes off. DO NOT heat the glow plugs before either. Just a quick shot and see if it attempts to start. If your starter isn't cranking it fast enough, it may fire right off. No matter the outcome of the either, I'd do a compression check. Just to see what shape the motor is in. From there, I'd rebuild if necessary. If it's in good shape, new pump and injectors. Really shouldn't take more than an hour or two to figure out why this won't start. Fuel, air and fire (compression) is all it needs to run. Figure out which one it isn't getting. Sounds like air is taken care of. You say it's blowing smoke when cranking, so it is at least getting some kind of fuel. It may not be atomized good enough, so that may be the issue. Or it could be injecting at the wrong time. Fire: Check the compression. If it has good compression, then it's definitely in the fuel system.

Yup your right I pulled them out, right again I don't know what I'm doing with diesels. I am judging horrible by the amount of carbon and debris that's built up surrounding the nipple on the bottom of the injector. Listen, do you know how I learned to fix things? I tear things appart and learn from experience. Am I going to screw this injector up by tearing it appart and hosing it down inside and out with brake clean? Probally, but I will learn a lesson either way. I'm not gonna buy a non running 1985 tractor to look at, I also did not buy it cause it's all I could afford. I bought it to learn more about diesels and try to better understand the trouble shooting part of diagnosis on a Diesel engine. Will I send it out to be rebuilt? Yes I will if I have to. Or buy new. Will I pull the pump and have it rebuilt? Yes if I have to. Or buy new. But before that happens I will tear it appart and learn better what makes it work. I will clean the injectors best I can and do a pressure test on them to find out what pressure they open, what the spray pattern is, and if they leak under pressure. But that's before I reinstall them, then I will move on to a compression check, possibally a leak down test before I touch the head on this engine. Yes I did give it a quick shot of ether with the old glow plugs in, no change except it rolled over harder.
You obviously have a lot more experience than I do with these engines, but how did you get experience? You tore stuff appart and learned.





The needle was gummed inside the injector to the point I had to work it out of there with brake clean and moving it back and forth. The video and info I have gathered seems to point to that needle having free movement with the injector disassembled. I will disassemble all these injectors and brake clean every hole and orfice I can get to. Then put them back together

If you can't appreciete the efforts of a person trying to do the best they can and learning then you and I will not see eye to eye on this matter. But don't get obnoxious with me while I am trying to figure this stuff out.

I appreciate your last post. That does help me quite a bit. Excuse the mild rant above.
But just know this I am trying to do the right things here.

BTW I have no previous records of any kind on this tractor PO was no help. I did not tear the pump appart YET.