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  #111  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:37 AM
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sawdustdad sawdustdad is offline
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Well, now that I see it together, it makes more sense.

Frank, you know I'm not picking on you, but I don't think the angle iron frame, running perpendicular to the tractor, that attaches to the outer box tube at the rear, is anywhere near strong enough to support much load. It will bow downward on the outside when stressed, or even bow back and down buckling under the load. That piece needs to be box tube, because it will also have a side load (for lack of a better term) applied to it when you make it a powered dump.

Just calling it as I see it.
You may be right, Jon. Easy enough to add another angle to make it a square tube. I'll do that. Hadn't really thought about the point load of the lift cylinder pushing back as it lifts the bed.

There are two transverse pieces at the rear, one is attached to the battery box frame that's where the rear of the piece of wood is sitting. So it has lots of support there. That is the one you think needs to be square tube if I understand correctly.

The one behind the battery box has diagonal supports going down and forward to the rear of the battery box. They are short but will stiffen that farthest rearward cross member. As the bed is dumped, I think both rear transverse members will share the load. Might need to square that one up as well.

Probably should have built the whole thing out of square tube.
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  #112  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:59 AM
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What would you build the dump bed out of? Plywood would be easy(3/4" bottom, 1/2" sides) but this tractor will probably live outside most of the time. So I'm thinking maybe 12 ga sheet steel for the sides and 1/8 inch or 10 ga for the bottom. The bottom will need some supports underneath to keep it from bowing down when loaded up. What would you use?
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  #113  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:37 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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You may be right, Jon. Easy enough to add another angle to make it a square tube. I'll do that. Hadn't really thought about the point load of the lift cylinder pushing back as it lifts the bed.
I don't know where you plan to mount the cylinder on the rear.... but it can't be to that angle iron where the board is sitting. The distance between there and the front of the bed only changes by maybe 1" from sitting to full vertical. Cylinder is going to have to mount much lower at the rear. Not sure you have enough room. Once you get the battery in there, you aren't going to have enough room. I really can't understand why you didn't put the battery under the seat. Shorter cables, and easier access. That's where it should be. Under the seat, out of the way. If the tractor won't start, or the battery is dead, how do you plan to lift the bed to get to it if you have a power dump? I mean...... ???

Yes, the cylinder is going to push rearward as it dumps. I can do the math to get you some force, but I know you understand it will be a multiplied force, not just an equivalent of the load. It's going to have to push pretty hard, so there needs to be plenty of support.


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Originally Posted by sawdustdad View Post
There are two transverse pieces at the rear, one is attached to the battery box frame that's where the rear of the piece of wood is sitting. So it has lots of support there. That is the one you think needs to be square tube if I understand correctly.

The one behind the battery box has diagonal supports going down and forward to the rear of the battery box. They are short but will stiffen that farthest rearward cross member. As the bed is dumped, I think both rear transverse members will share the load. Might need to square that one up as well.
I think they both need to come out. The one on the rear isn't doing anything. If it was also attached with lateral braces to the angle iron in front of it, it would then support some weight. As it is.... not much of any support. Nothing tying it to the rest of the frame. Just like building a truss as compared to a rafter. That make sense? You just have a rafter with that rear angle. Take both out and replace it with box tube. Not stacked and welded angle. While putting them together, a box does it make.... it's not as strong. Just use box tube.


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Probably should have built the whole thing out of square tube.
Meh..... Maybe. Maybe not. Yes, I would have used different material. But you have a different idea in your head. I'm just here to help it come to fruition.
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  #114  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:58 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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What would you build the dump bed out of? Plywood would be easy(3/4" bottom, 1/2" sides) but this tractor will probably live outside most of the time. So I'm thinking maybe 12 ga sheet steel for the sides and 1/8 inch or 10 ga for the bottom. The bottom will need some supports underneath to keep it from bowing down when loaded up. What would you use?
I don't know Frank. If using steel, I would probably make the sides and bottom out of one whole piece, using a brake to bend it. (Or having a metal shop brake it for me.) Issue is, if you don't also brake a "u" at the top, the sides will deform easily. (Think like an IH or Agrifab lawn cart and how they are made.) That or weld a border all the way around..... but as you stated you would also need supports on bottom. With your angle iron frame, that's tough.

Plywood would be easier for sure. But if you leave it outside, it won't last long. If you paint it, and tarp it, you would get several years use though.

I would suggest some type of plastic. I am not even going to pretend that I know much about all the different plastics.... but I do know some are more durable than others. After some short research, HDPE seems reasonable, both in strength, and cost. Here is a link to a company that sells sheets. I linked a sheet of HDPE, but it is not UV protected, and unless you want to paint it, I think it needs to be. Maybe they have some that is.

Here is a machinability chart of plastics. May help you decide what type you need.

Just suggestions.
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  #115  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:23 AM
twoton twoton is offline
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How bout mounting your cylinder, or linear actuator, vertically at the front of the bed. Not in front of the frame as the red line suggests, but just behind the front of the frame, looks like you may have some room there... Fab a mounting base that bolts to the top of the tractor frame and if you need the space, form a pocket at the front of your dump body to house the cylinder...

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/...-5-1679-18.axd
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  #116  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:40 AM
twoton twoton is offline
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Think like this....
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  #117  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:55 AM
twoton twoton is offline
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...with the linear actuator you could always make provisions to apply external power to raise the body in the event that the tractor wouldn't start.
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  #118  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:23 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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How bout mounting your cylinder, or linear actuator, vertically at the front of the bed. Not in front of the frame as the red line suggests, but just behind the front of the frame, looks like you may have some room there... Fab a mounting base that bolts to the top of the tractor frame and if you need the space, form a pocket at the front of your dump body to house the cylinder...
twoton, if he mounts it like that, he will hardly get any lift at all. Even if the cylinder is mounted below the bed frame, and reaches to the top of the height of the sides, the lift cylinder would only be maybe 26"-28" long. That's only about 22"-24" (or so) of dump, measured at the front of the bed. Not very much.

The cylinders on dump trucks telescope, so they can be 5 or even 6 times as long when extended. Linear actuators don't even double in length when extended.


He needs to do something similar to what Sam did. (See post #93.)
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  #119  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:07 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Good points there Jon. Of course we gotta remember the dump truck pivots at the very rear of the body and Frank's pivot point if further ahead (maybe should be ever further forward like Sam's) allowing a certain amount of drop at the rear as the front raises. I wouldn't think he would have to have the bed go vertical to dump some wood chips or gravel or whatever.

I guess we'll see what he comes up with...
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  #120  
Old 01-05-2018, 04:30 PM
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HDPE is very poor structurally especially when warm, like composite deck boards it needs extra support compared to wood.
In order to use it by itself for a dump body, it would be quite expensive.
But it would make for a great dump body liner as it would be slick as snot and you would not have to tilt it as far to dump your load.

If you could find some used aluminum bleacher planks...........you could make a stout box out of them with floor welded to the front and sides etc.
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