Starting issue..gasoline or carb?

[mirt54]

When I leave my 149 sit for a couple of weeks, it won't start without starting fluid. This is only the second tank of gas I've put in this machine. It's the same gas as I use in my push mower and I don'[t have any starting issues with it. I do use sta-bil (sp?). Do you think the carb needs rebuild? If so, can you recommend a quality kit and link? Or any other suggestions to solving this issue much appreciated. BTW, once running it runs good, but does need choked when throttling up but just until warmed up. Thanks

[TEET]

Do you turn your fuel off (petcock) when not in use? Any issues with your fuel pump? I would start out by rebuilding the carb if it hasn't been done in a while. Its cheap insurance that everything is kosher with the carb. I've picked up kits on e-bay before with excellent results...they are usually a mix of Kohler parts, and Stens brand parts. Once that is done, if you still have the same symptoms you can eliminate other possibilities.

Good luck,

Jeff (teet)

[wshytle]

Mert54, You might want to try using hi-test. I use it and gas/carb is never a problem. I also throttle down just before shutting the engine with the gas shut off closed. I let it run maybe a minute or even run out of fuel in the carb before I shut it down. Things like additives in fuel and stabilizers seem to cause issues. Hi-test doesn't have the additives lower octane fuels have (from what I've heard). It apparently doesn't take much "junk" to gum up needle valves and small ports in the carb and hi-test seems to keep the carb a little cleaner. Also, when you go to start the tractor make sure the fuel shutoff is fully open. My 124 will not run well if the shutoff is only partially open I guess because of the gravity feed system. I open it all the way and no problems.
I'm in no way a fuel expert but rather just speak from experience. Others here will not agree so much and fuel seems to bring on the longest discussions but it won't hurt to try.
I'd also start with a freshly rebuilt carb. Make sure you run a fine wire through any holes and use plenty of carb cleaner/compressed air.
Good luck, Wayne

[JayBrd]

I don't mean to start another great fuel debate.. But I just got dinged on almost every carb'd motor I have due to ethonol gas. Now before some call me crazier, I stopped at a different gas station than normal for my small engine gas. Everything I ran this batch of gas in took a dump. It cost me $140 to get my Quad back up and running after sitting a couple of weeks. My weed wacker (contractor grade), push mower, and chain saw are all also screwed up. They all have a yellow chalky film in the float bowls. I also run a fuel dryer and it still did not help.

As much as I never had an issue before, keep your gas fresh, and try and find non ethonol gas if you can..


The other thing too is I do not shut off my fuel. I run a bit "non correct" fuel set up on my O due to the K241 in it. The last time I did I had the same issue with not starting. It turned out the carb went dry and I had to work it to get it back up and running. I leave the fuel on now and deal with it.. never have had a starting issue since.

[Jeff122]

Along with other additives, ethanol is and has been making problems with small engines. Without a doubt, use high test with stabilizer. But for your particular problem, I'd do a rebuild. My Cub sat in storage for a few years. I left gas in it to stop rust from condensation. The day I brought it home, I drained the old gas and put in fresh. It started right up. So in my opinion, if a Cub won't start because of fuel, it just isn't getting any. Good luck.

[Merk]

wshytle, JayBrd and Jeff122

Check out page 3 of this topic. Make sure you read all 3 of my post:
http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...?t=1761&page=3

I did some checking on fuel requirements for small air cooled motor(s). This infomation is from the small motor sites.

Kohler's FAQ site-Check questions #8 and #9:
http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm

Briggs and Stratton's FAQs:
http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=1415&body_0$tbKeyword=fuel&sel ectCats=Other
I can't get the link to work...Here is the infomation that is on Briggs and Stratton's site:
What type of gas is good for my engine?
All 4 stroke cycle spark ignited engines

Fuel must meet these requirements:

Clean, fresh, unleaded gasoline.

A minimum of 87 octane/ 87 AKI (91 RON). High altitude use, see below.

Gasoline with up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), is acceptable.

Stihl (check question#3):
http://www.stihlusa.com/faq.html

Honda(question #7 in General Infomation:
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/faq/

Lawn-Boy(Look under mowers-General infomation. Nothing found on their site about using-not using ethanol in the fuel-they do have a good recomendation on fuel storage-life of fuelThey aslo have some infomation on higher than recomended octane fuel):
https://support.lawnboy.com/portal/s...7&PageID=19514

Poulan:
http://www.poulanpro.com/node5722.aspx#QA3

Tecumseh (look at page 7):
http://www.tecumsehpower.com/CustomerService/BSI.pdf

Echo
(Look under Alternative Fuel Useage. They do not want the homeowner to use ethanol....gasohol is ok???? possible double talk????):
http://www.echo-usa.com/faqs.asp
Here is some interresting info on gasohol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_..._fuel_mixtures

quote from Echo site:
Low ethanol blends, from E5 to E25, are also known as gasohol, though internationally the most common use of the term gasohol refers to the E10 blend.

How many small motor maker don't allow the use of ethanol besides Lawn Boy(not sure one way or the other)?

The biggest problem(s) I see poor fuel storage. Here are a few:
1. The fuel stablizer must be add to fuel container before the gas is added.
2. The gas must fresh and purchase from a station that sells a high volume of gas.
3. Your storage container(s) should be the ones that are sealed when not in use.
4. Replace any gas over 30 days for your small motors that is in your bulk container(s) with fresh gas.

by JayBrd
I don't mean to start another great fuel debate.. But I just got dinged on almost every carb'd motor I have due to ethonol gas. Now before some call me crazier, I stopped at a different gas station than normal for my small engine gas. Everything I ran this batch of gas in took a dump. It cost me $140 to get my Quad back up and running after sitting a couple of weeks. My weed wacker (contractor grade), push mower, and chain saw are all also screwed up. They all have a yellow chalky film in the float bowls. I also run a fuel dryer and it still did not help.

Ethanol will clean that yellow chalky film that was in the float bowls.
What brand fuel dryer did you use?

Getting back to mirt54's orginal problem:
The carb needs rebuilt. It sounds like the low speed jet is plug.
I would drain the gas from the 149 and replace it with fresh 87 octane gas with a fuel stablizer in it. Make sure the inside of the fuel tank is not rusted. Install a inline gas filter(screen in tank isn't good enough). I would install a fresh spark plug. Autolite spark plug work great in my 149

[placeebo effect]

may i sugguest a dose of seafoam to clean out the carb

[Jeff122]

Yes, the manufacturer's specs state 87 is ok to use. It also says "or higher". Like most specs, they are derived from research in near perfect conditions. With all of these convenient market type gas stations, we can't be sure what they are buying and putting into their tanks. I have a brother in law who worked for Texaco, both in fuels and lubricants. In fact, he was the key person in the development of "System 3" fuel. He pointed out that the extra cost for high test is not only for the extra octane, but also for the increased quality control. So why not spend the extra and use high test in our small engines? How much more will it cost per 2 or 3 gallon gas tanks? For me, it's worth it to eliminate one factor that can add to carb and performance problems.

[wshytle]

Merk, I understand how people are going to what they are going to do. Kohler could come out with the perfect fuel for all Kohler engines and some would still stick to their present methods. It's a shame that fuel quality isn't just uniform across the country but then the climate isn't uniform. I live in North Carolina where night time lows in the teens are very rare, or even temps in the 20s for that matter. I'll say it again that an older gentleman with roughly 50 years experience, dealing with Gravely engines first then both Gravely and Kohler told me to use hi-test. He also stated it has a longer shelf life as well. Bottom line in this discussion is that most problems seem to be coming from dirty carbs, not bad gas. Since I started using hi-test regularly my carbs have remained clean or so it seems. I do try to stay on top of cutting the fuel off and I'm actually experimenting with MMO as an additive as I learned from the forum.
Again, being NC born and bred, I can't imagine the type of weather I read about here. I would someday love to VISIT a place and do some snow cubbing. The pictures of cubs dealing with snow are some of my favorites.
I'm rambling now but thanks for all of the info on gas.
Wayne

[Matt G.]

I've never had a problem with 87 octane....but then again, every cub that comes through here gets a carb cleaning/rebuild. My tractors start and run in the winter, and after sitting 6 months with or without gas in them. No seafoam, MMO, Sta-bil, etc...We go through a lot of small-engine gas here, so high-test gets expensive...the M18 and CH18 in my 582 and 782 drink gas, particularly in the winter for the 782 when it is run very hard clearing the driveway.