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  #1  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:54 AM
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papaglide papaglide is offline
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Default pto pulley

I think I know the answer BUT I will ask anyway: should the pto pulley "wiggle" on the crank or should it be tight and not move? (pto in question is on my 169)
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:40 PM
Yosemite Sam Yosemite Sam is offline
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You are correct in thinking that the pto should be tight and not wiggle. In your post you don't say if it the pto is actually "loose" on the shaft or if it just appears to wobble as its turning.

In either case the pulley for the pto should "run true" as the motor turns and should be tight on the shaft/bearing.

I can only think of three things that would cause this problem.
1.)The pto is loose on the bearing.
2.)The bearing is loose on the shaft.
3.) The bearing is bad.

You may get lucky and only need to tighten the set screws that hold the pto on the bearing. Remember that there are two set screws in each if the three holes that hold the pto onto the bearing, so one screw must come out of each hole before the second screws can be tightened.

It is also possible that the bearing lock collar has worked loose on the bearing/shaft and needs to be tightened.

But chances are, the pto bearing is bad and will need to be replaced.

Oh, wait a second. There is also a 4th. possibility, that is the pto itself is worn out, come loose, or broken.

Whatever the problem is you will probably want to address it right away, if it is left unattended it will only get worse and parts will start to get worn, bent or broken. If let go very long the fiber button will soon wear out and then the three fingers and bolts that hold the pto together will start hitting on the engage arm and it gets really ugly from there.

"I think" everything you need to know is in the "Technical Library" here.

Good luck
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  #3  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:16 PM
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drysumpjet drysumpjet is offline
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Are you refering to the actual PTO pulley or the pulley for the generator/starter belt? If it's the generator/starter pulley, it should be tight, any looseness will damage the crankshaft.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:20 PM
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papaglide papaglide is offline
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well I got to examine the PTO this morning. Much to my "non-surprise" only 2 out of the 6 set screws were present. I took the 2 screws out and tried to line up the set screw holes. Here is what I did:

1. spun the pto to line up the holes with the notches in the basket.
2. lined up the holes.
3. Found out that the pto won't go into the basket more than half way.
4. I left it in that position, put the 3, 1/4" set screws in.
5. put the 3 shorter screws in.
6. The pto doesn't wobble at all back and forth(to the front and rear of the tractor)
7. The PTO does spin on the shaft about an 1/8" within the basket. That is to say the PTO spins within the basket as much as the fins on the pulley allow it to spin.

Does this sound correct to anyone? Or should the PTO fit ALL the way into the basket so that the set screw holes are located fully in the notches on the basket.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Yosemite Sam Yosemite Sam is offline
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Not sure if this will exactly answer the question that you asked or not.

The pto will only go on as far as the bearing will allow it to, once the bearing bottoms out against the snap ring in the hole of the pto, that's all you get.

If your pulley and basket is back too far on the shaft, then the pto will not go far enough into the basket. This is a pretty hard thing to mess up on, as the pulley is supposed to be really close to the bolt head for the upper S/G bracket.

If your bearing is out too far on the shaft, then the pto will not go into the basket as far as it should.

The depth that the pto goes into the basket is determined by where the basket and bearing are on the shaft.

I don't know if I have ever removed a pto that was still in it's "factory" position on the shaft. So I don't know for sure the exact location of where the bearing is supposed to be on the shaft. The center race of the bearings for most of the pto's that I have removed are between 1/16" and 1/8" from being all the way on the shaft.

As long as the "fingers" of the clutch disk are far enough into the basket that the anti-rattle clips will stay in place and your belts both line up as they should then you should be good to go.

One other important thing is: The set screws that hold the pto onto the bearing MUST BE CONED POINT SCREWS, these screws DO NOT "dig" into the side of the bearing. The tip of the screws actually go BEHIND the edge of the bearing, the more you tighten the screws the farther they "pull" the pto onto the bearing, until the bearing bottoms out against the snap ring in the center of the pto. This will help to ensure that the pto will "run true" AND hold the pto on the bearing so that it does not "walk off" of the bearing.

I know that I have said the same thing a dozen different ways here, but I find this topic to be a difficult thing to convey with the written word, and I want to do everything I can to be sure that I don't mislead anyone.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:09 PM
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papaglide papaglide is offline
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Thanks Sam. What you wrote down does make sense to me. Now, as far as my point no.7 goes:

7. The PTO does spin on the shaft (bearing) about an 1/8" within the basket. That is to say the PTO spins within the basket as much as the fins on the pulley allow it to spin.

Is this OK to run it as is. It no longer moves back and forth (front to rear) and has all 6 set screws in place. With the coned ones in first.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Ash_129 Ash_129 is offline
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It sounds like you might have missing anti-rattle clips?? You can get rid of that 1/8" play that you mentioned by installing 3 of these clips.

As far as the manual says. The PTO bearing should be flush with the end of the crankshaft nose. They also have a measurement of "end of crankshaft nose-to-PTO pulley/basket hub" for the various Kohler engines (HP rating). (I can't remember the measurements of hand.)

Cheers
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:40 PM
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papaglide papaglide is offline
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Thanks guys. I may be missing the anti rattle clips. Where do they go on and what do they look like? I can't find a diagram of them in the service manual
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:45 PM
Yosemite Sam Yosemite Sam is offline
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Wow, Thanks Ash_129, your information will be put to good use.

papaglide, the anti-rattle clips look kinda like the first 1/2" or so of the round end of a bobby-pin only one end of the clip is bent at a 90 degree angle to keep it from sliding out from behind the "finger" of the clutch disk... Oh hell easier to dig one out and send a pic... They go on the side of the finger of the disk between the finger and the basket but on the non-leading edge (the edge that the basket doesn't push). They don't actually clip on to anything they go between the two parts.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2009, 08:55 PM
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papaglide papaglide is offline
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Thanks you for all the help guys. The existing pto on my 169 only had 2 out of 6 set screws and NO clips. I went thru my box of parts that I got with my 127 and I found all the screws I needed plus three clips. I got my pto back together and it works with no rattling noise and absolutely no wiggling of the pulley. Thanks again.

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