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  #41  
Old 12-04-2018, 05:20 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Default Auxiliary power problems

So, last week I had a chance to catch up on a few small welding projects. My machine fired right up and welding went well. Unfortunately, it would not produce any auxiliary power for grinder, drill, etc...

When I opened the case, I noticed that the brass ring closest to the welder side of the machine was badly tarnished while the ring closest to the motor was a bright, brownish/brass. Otherwise the brass rings were in excellent shape. I then removed the brush holder, color coding the wires for future reference. The brush from the tarnished ring clearly looked like it was making poor contact.
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File Type: jpg brushes.jpg (25.4 KB, 61 views)
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  #42  
Old 12-04-2018, 05:27 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Default Auxiliary power problems

It is my understanding that a failed flashing diode may have something to do with such a problem and that if it fails in the closed position (continuity in both directions), high voltage can back feed and take out the magneto.

so, first, using my multi meter, set on ohms, I tested the flashing diode. My meter showed the diode failed in the open position, no continuity in either direction.

Second, same setting on the multi meter, I tested and confirmed that I had continuity through the primary winding of the magneto.

Third, same setting, no continuity through the magneto to ground.

So I figured, this is small stuff, all I need is a new Flashing diode assembly, part # T13894.
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File Type: jpg Weldanpower wiring diagram resized.jpg (22.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg test diode 1.jpg (33.2 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg test diode 2.jpg (30.2 KB, 62 views)
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  #43  
Old 12-04-2018, 05:31 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Default Auxiliary power problems

Wanting to confirm the results of my first round of tests, I went to the Fluke site to read up on diode testing;

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/be...tal-multimeter

Unfortunatly, my fancy dancy Fluke meter does not have a diode test mode. But the POS HF meter that I got for free does.

So round two. POS HF multi meter confirms what the Fluke was saying. Diode failed open.

Round three. Home made test light. Clip one end on the B+ terminal of the battery, the other end to the cathode side of the diode. Jumper from the anode side back to the battery B-. I think you can see from the picture...

Reverse connections and... yup. Diode tests 'OK'.

So here's my question to you all, what am I doing wrong in my first two tests to be getting these contradictory results?
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File Type: jpg test light 2.jpg (33.8 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg test light 1.jpg (34.3 KB, 61 views)
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  #44  
Old 12-04-2018, 06:32 PM
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Billy-O Billy-O is offline
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I can hardly read the schematic... If I enlarge the picture, it is too blurry. Any way to establish clarity?

Just how much does it cost to replace the diode in question? It is probably pretty cheap to just replace it if you feel it is suspect. My father has a tractor that was having intermittent start but not run problem. If the problem didn't exist at the time, then we couldn't figure out the problem. Sometimes, the tractor just drop dead in the middle of the field. Never been able to figure out the problem and then the tractor would just start right up and run! Crazy! My father had done quite a bit of research online and was narrowing down to 4 different diodes in various places on the green tractor. Trouble was, which one of the diodes was intermittently failing? And where were they on the tractor? (These diodes were hard to find, pig-tailed to the wiring harness buried under something). Until one day the tractor just would not run (not an intermittent problem now, just constant)..... then we able to find the diodes and test them until we found one open both ways. Replaced that diode and tractor runs. For next time, we now know where are all them damn diodes! Spares on hand @ 9 bucks a piece.
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  #45  
Old 12-04-2018, 07:05 PM
ejl6658 ejl6658 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoton View Post
Wanting to confirm the results of my first round of tests, I went to the Fluke site to read up on diode testing;

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/be...tal-multimeter

Unfortunatly, my fancy dancy Fluke meter does not have a diode test mode. But the POS HF meter that I got for free does.

So round two. POS HF multi meter confirms what the Fluke was saying. Diode failed open.

Round three. Home made test light. Clip one end on the B+ terminal of the battery, the other end to the cathode side of the diode. Jumper from the anode side back to the battery B-. I think you can see from the picture...

Reverse connections and... yup. Diode tests 'OK'.

So here's my question to you all, what am I doing wrong in my first two tests to be getting these contradictory results?
Got a couple questions on your testing with the battery. Forward biased you should of read around .6 volts across the diode with a voltmeter (+ to anode - to cathode) reverse biased ( + to cathode - to anode) you should of read your battery voltage across the diode with a voltmeter. That is basically what you are doing with the 9 volt battery in the multimeter in diode test mode.
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  #46  
Old 12-04-2018, 07:10 PM
ejl6658 ejl6658 is offline
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If you got 12 volts across the diode with voltmeter both forward and reverse biased the diode is open. If it was shorted it would of self destructed when you hooked the battery up.
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  #47  
Old 12-04-2018, 07:42 PM
ejl6658 ejl6658 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy-O View Post
I can hardly read the schematic... If I enlarge the picture, it is too blurry. Any way to establish clarity?

Just how much does it cost to replace the diode in question? It is probably pretty cheap to just replace it if you feel it is suspect. My father has a tractor that was having intermittent start but not run problem. If the problem didn't exist at the time, then we couldn't figure out the problem. Sometimes, the tractor just drop dead in the middle of the field. Never been able to figure out the problem and then the tractor would just start right up and run! Crazy! My father had done quite a bit of research online and was narrowing down to 4 different diodes in various places on the green tractor. Trouble was, which one of the diodes was intermittently failing? And where were they on the tractor? (These diodes were hard to find, pig-tailed to the wiring harness buried under something). Until one day the tractor just would not run (not an intermittent problem now, just constant)..... then we able to find the diodes and test them until we found one open both ways. Replaced that diode and tractor runs. For next time, we now know where are all them damn diodes! Spares on hand @ 9 bucks a piece.
Diodes inline in a dc circuit as used to block AC from the charging circuit since the stator/voltage regulator don't have a large capacitor incorporated to filter the AC out.
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  #48  
Old 12-04-2018, 08:49 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Thanks for the comments guys, a little more info first...

I polished up all the ring terminals on the wires that I disconnected from the brush leads. Cleaned the brass rings with some plastic safe electrical contact cleaner and a soft brush, and re installed the brushes. I then cut some long strips of 400 grit emery paper and inserted it between the brass rings and the brushes. I pulled the paper through, grit side to the brushes, following the normal direction of rotation.

I picked up a couple of #10 - 24 brass nuts to replace the rusty ones on the brush connectors and reconnected everything.

Fired it up and it works.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg emery cloth 1.jpg (29.0 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg emery cloth 2.jpg (20.7 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg Fixed.jpg (29.0 KB, 53 views)
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  #49  
Old 12-04-2018, 08:56 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy-O View Post
I can hardly read the schematic... If I enlarge the picture, it is too blurry. Any way to establish clarity?

Just how much does it cost to replace the diode in question? It is probably pretty cheap to just replace it if you feel it is suspect. My father has a tractor that was having intermittent start but not run problem. If the problem didn't exist at the time, then we couldn't figure out the problem. Sometimes, the tractor just drop dead in the middle of the field. Never been able to figure out the problem and then the tractor would just start right up and run! Crazy! My father had done quite a bit of research online and was narrowing down to 4 different diodes in various places on the green tractor. Trouble was, which one of the diodes was intermittently failing? And where were they on the tractor? (These diodes were hard to find, pig-tailed to the wiring harness buried under something). Until one day the tractor just would not run (not an intermittent problem now, just constant)..... then we able to find the diodes and test them until we found one open both ways. Replaced that diode and tractor runs. For next time, we now know where are all them damn diodes! Spares on hand @ 9 bucks a piece.
Yeah, that wiring diagram is pretty poor. I called Lincoln Electric and not only did they not have a better one or any other information, but the diode is NLA. They did give me the names and numbers of some obsolete parts vendors that buy all there old stuff... It's just a 3 amp diode though. I just don't want to buy a 10 pack of diodes for $7.00 made from chinesium.

Thanks for the comment Billy-O.
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  #50  
Old 12-04-2018, 09:07 PM
twoton twoton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejl6658 View Post
Got a couple questions on your testing with the battery. Forward biased you should of read around .6 volts across the diode with a voltmeter (+ to anode - to cathode) reverse biased ( + to cathode - to anode) you should of read your battery voltage across the diode with a voltmeter. That is basically what you are doing with the 9 volt battery in the multimeter in diode test mode.
OK ejl6658. So I didn't test for voltage across the diode when I used the test light. I just used the test light. I figured it wouldn't lie.... So you're saying that I should use the test light and check for voltage?

I don't understand why it's called a flashing diode,... it looks to me like it's job is to protect the primary coil in the magneto from high voltage...

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