12.5 swap 127

cheesedawg82 · #1 12-07-2018, 06:07 PM

Hi all. I'm new to Cub Cadets. I've been looking for a good garden tractor for my expanding garden, and i"ve got a limited budget. I want to pull a plow and a cultivator, maybe a rototiller in the future. Bonus points if the kids can run it in the garden tractor pulls. The Cub Cadet looks to be the best tractor for the job regardless of budget, and parts are everywhere Sweet!

Now I go on Ebay looking at stuff and start dreaming. I'll be honest, I don't have $500 lying around to spend on a tractor all at once, let alone picking up the attachments. Maybe someday, right? I bid on this 127 about 60 miles away. It's $25. No way I'll win, right? Wrong! I actually got my tractor. A week later we take a road trip, and now there's a clapped out 127 rusting in my back yard. The K301 has a broken rod, no carb, generator, or exhaust. The front wheels are missing, as is the lift and gas tank. The rest of the machine is pretty much there, and it's in nice shape. I'm excited. 4 year old loves it so much my girlfriend let me park it by the swingset, too

A few months go by, and a friend asks me to come get this tractor out of her garage. It's got no deck, the tins are gone, and the wiring harness is bad. It's Cub Cadet 2135, 12.5HP Kohler Command OHV. The burnt harness was an easy fix, and this one starts up and drives.

Before spring, the plan is for these 2 tractors to enter my garage, and have one tractor leave. I'm mechanically inclined, but I'm not too familiar with garden tractors, so I'm hoping you folks can give me some tips and tricks and pointers. I'd like to fabricobble as much as possible, and build whatever I can from the empire of dirt if possible. If I do have to buy parts, I generally prefer the long-term cost effective option. With that said -

1. I'd like to know what to look for in the front end of my 127. I have to get it in the garage and look for myself but the guy said the spindles are hosed. There's no front tires. - Is the 2135 front end even a consideration? If not, is there a good, solid farmer fix where I can use what I've got, or should I just bite the bullet and look for spindles and wheels from a wide frame and be done with it? Spending heavy here might mean skimping somewhere else.

2. 12.5 Command OHV. This bad boy looks like it will bolt right in, drive shaft flange, electric PTO and all. I read in another forum about how to use briggs carb parts to eliminate the fuel solenoid, which I did. Is this too good to be true? What surprises will I find along the way?

3. Hydrostatic Transaxle. - What do I do to service it, and what can i do to give it a little extra? This is going to pull a plow all day long, one day a year. once a month, it's going to pull weeds real quick. Harvest time, it may dig potatoes. I've got a toddler that would love to run it in the tractor pulls. If I've got it out and apart, what can I do to it to make it better? I'm totally ok with drilling holes, grinding, and porting, but I haven't got a clue as to how hydrostatic transaxles work, so if there's a thread please link it. -- (side note, can this run hydraulics?)

4. Bang for my buck. What parts should I make sure I don't overlook? What are the best upgrades, and the must haves? I know I'll have to add a kill switch so the kids can run it in the pulls.

Thanks for all the help! Hoping to free up space in the garage by new years. When I get 'em out from under their tarps and inside, I'll post pics!

Billy-O · #2 12-07-2018, 08:24 PM

I can't tell you much about mixing different generations of tractors to make one..... But personally I'd just try to find a running manual tranny for something you want to do.... Especially with pulling, plowing and cultivating. The sticks are suppose to be better for pulling performance wise. I think you find a nice running even number narrow frame for three Bennies or less.

Gompers · #3 12-07-2018, 10:31 PM

Just my opinion, but I’d part out or sell the 2135 whole and use the money to pick up another tractor. The 2135 is a whole different beast and there is basically zero in common with your vintage cub. Anything is possible, and I know you’ve got more time than money, but that thing will nickel and dime you to death.

You can get a good running one for ~150-250 if you keep an eye out. Market is soft right now. I’m guessing you can get at least that for a running 2135.

If you go the other route:

1. 127 is a narrow frame. Haven’t done much swapping, but any narrow frame front end should bolt in. Wide frames probably will too. The axle didn’t change very much over the years. I’ll defer to others on this specific swap.

2. I don’t know of anyone that’s done that swap, but if I had to guess, you’ll run into problems getting the flywheel to fit between the frame rails. You might have to notch the frame to make it fit (that’s what IH did with the 147 to make the K321 fit). Wiring will have to be totally re-done for the engine, and probably needs to be done anyway.

3. the 127 rear end is plenty to do what you want. It takes 1-2 HP to turn it, but it’s plenty beefy for whatever you want to do with a tractor that size. I wouldn’t even bother taking it apart. The only thing you need to really worry about on those is the trunnion repair (search for that...tons of info). Change the fluid and filter. Maybe swap out the cork gasket while you have it apart. It’s bulletproof. 127 can’t run hydraulics from the factory but you can mount a hydraulic pump and run it off the flywheel pulley on a stock one. The next generation of tractors (129/149/169) sometimes had a ported hydrostatic charge pump that could run a hydraulic lift, and if you find one of those you can swap them around. Lot of work though.

If you’re serious about pulling, you’d probably want to go with a gear drive, but that’s a whole different story.

4. Rest of it depends on your budget and proclivities. Steering is almost always garbage on cub cadets. Rebuild the steering gear and maybe add some bearings to the shaft. Heim joints for the steering linkages is a good upgrade too. You’ll want a rear lift (there are 1x6/7 specific parts, but aside from that most narrow frame lifts will fit), wheel weights, maybe chains. Lights. Obviously implements (can get expensive). If you want to run a tiller, you’ll need to get the PTO working. That will be challenging with the 12.5.

127s are great little tractors. I have one and I like it, but your most cost effective option may be to just find a little nicer roller and go from there.

Dirtpusher · #4 12-08-2018, 08:34 AM

I definitely wouldn't put any motor other than a k series in a narrow frame. $25 for the tractor was an excellent score so now watch for another good deal on a second narrow frame and maybe take 2 to build one or even find a runner and have a parts tractor. Don't forget if you want to pull a plow or cultivator you will need a sleeve hitch which can be a little pricey to buy and hard to find. A spring assist makes using the rear mount implements much easier but they are also pricey and hard to find. Once you get a cub set up with everything you need you will love it! Watch for cubs at auctions and scrap yards. That's where I've found most of my collection.

dodge trucker · #5 12-08-2018, 11:04 AM

if you were closer I could help with parts to make that 127 whole again.
I thought Id seen something somewhere about using a 129 wide frame axle in that series tractor somewhere? I have a couple extra front axles, one for said 129 and I THINK I might have one from a 1650 yet, the axles between those 2 may even wind up being the same as each other....
I know I have seen something about putting a front axle out of a newer Cub into an older one, I last heard about that pertaining to someone putting a "3 turn" steering setup into an older machine.... so there is a lot possible, and many of us have spare parts of some sort laying around. maybe others (hopefully closer to you than I am) will see this and chime in to offer up some of their spares to help you out???
The older tractors like the 127 are definitely a better machine than the new box store, "built to a price point" machines.

for $25 though maybe you will find a better one and use THAT one as the parts machine ? Not many parts on that one that aren't worth $25 by themselves..... find another, use what you need from this one and use the remnants as trade bait?
I tend to agree with the idea to clean up the 2135 a bit, fix the wiring (as it appears that you may have already) and sell that one whole, take the $$$ from that and buy an older machine.

finsruskw · #6 12-08-2018, 11:56 AM

I agree.
The 2135 is basically a "lawn mower/tractor" and nothing else.

cheesedawg82 · #7 12-08-2018, 08:53 PM

That 12.5 sure looks a lot like a K series with a new head and a plastic cover, I don't know. As far as the PTO concerns go, I don't think it's as big an issue as you would think, there's already an electric PTO there, just add a wire and a switch.

Looks like it will fit. As far as the 2135 goes, there's no deck, no hood, and no market for that particular machine in December. I'm gonna take it apart and build something out of it, and I'd prefer it to be the 127. If I put in a K series, it might be 2 years. I could always put one back in later, too, never know.

You say it takes 1hp to drive the pump and axle? Does that mean I could put a 5hp motor on the 2135 axle and push around maybe 1000 lbs of driver and cargo?

Gompers · #8 12-08-2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesedawg82

That 12.5 sure looks a lot like a K series with a new head and a plastic cover, I don't know. As far as the PTO concerns go, I don't think it's as big an issue as you would think, there's already an electric PTO there, just add a wire and a switch.

Looks like it will fit. As far as the 2135 goes, there's no deck, no hood, and no market for that particular machine in December. I'm gonna take it apart and build something out of it, and I'd prefer it to be the 127. If I put in a K series, it might be 2 years. I could always put one back in later, too, never know.

You say it takes 1hp to drive the pump and axle? Does that mean I could put a 5hp motor on the 2135 axle and push around maybe 1000 lbs of driver and cargo?

It's quite a bit different engine, though sort of roughly the same size. The M12 is what came after the K301 and it's basically bolt in with some wiring changes. CH12.5 is the OHV replacement for that I believe. I'm sure it'll fit and if you adapt the driveshaft coupler, it'll work fine to drive around.

PTO issues are that it likely won't line up with where the old mechanical one was. Probably also a different diameter PTO than the original one and runs a wider belt. If you want to run any of the stock implements that's going to cause issues. You might be able to modify the mule drive and cut some new holes in things and build a custom mount for the implements and replace all the pulleys and etc etc etc. Again, not saying it's not possible, just that it's a lot of work. Probably a lot more than slapping a rebuild kit in the K301 or finding one that runs.

There's a 1-2hp parasitic load that a sunstrand 15u pump in the 127 has. I have no idea what it is on the hydrogear rear end in the 2135. Probably somewhere in the same area. I'm sure it would move. I have no idea how much or for how long. 1000 lbs was pushing it for that tractor even when it was new with that 12.5hp engine in it. IH never built a hydro with less than 10 hp.

127 with a 10HP in it will pull 1k easy. A lot more than that if you get enough weight on it. Stopping it is a different story though.

thetoyfarmer · #9 12-09-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesedawg82

You say it takes 1hp to drive the pump and axle? Does that mean I could put a 5hp motor on the 2135 axle and push around maybe 1000 lbs of driver and cargo?

It does not take 1hp to drive the pump nor are they a parasitic loss.

cheesedawg82 · #10 12-10-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gompers

It's quite a bit different engine, though sort of roughly the same size. The M12 is what came after the K301 and it's basically bolt in with some wiring changes. CH12.5 is the OHV replacement for that I believe. I'm sure it'll fit and if you adapt the driveshaft coupler, it'll work fine to drive around.

PTO issues are that it likely won't line up with where the old mechanical one was. Probably also a different diameter PTO than the original one and runs a wider belt. If you want to run any of the stock implements that's going to cause issues. You might be able to modify the mule drive and cut some new holes in things and build a custom mount for the implements and replace all the pulleys and etc etc etc. Again, not saying it's not possible, just that it's a lot of work. Probably a lot more than slapping a rebuild kit in the K301 or finding one that runs.

There's a 1-2hp parasitic load that a sunstrand 15u pump in the 127 has. I have no idea what it is on the hydrogear rear end in the 2135. Probably somewhere in the same area. I'm sure it would move. I have no idea how much or for how long. 1000 lbs was pushing it for that tractor even when it was new with that 12.5hp engine in it. IH never built a hydro with less than 10 hp.

127 with a 10HP in it will pull 1k easy. A lot more than that if you get enough weight on it. Stopping it is a different story though.

1 - Any idea on what exactly I'll have to modify, or special tools that may make said coupler modification and adaptation easier? They looked the same before I covered them with a tarp in October, but if one of you has had both of these machines apart or has the 2 shafts on a shelf and could tell me the exact difference, I'd sure appreciate it and I think anyone else considering the same swap would, too.

2. PTO - That makes absolute sense. They looked similar, however I saw 2 front mounted PTO's and didn't look much further. My 127 does not have a mule drive on it, and I do not have any accessories. The main accessories I'm concerned with, however, are a 10" Brinly plow, a cultivator, and perhaps a middle buster if the 10" plow doesn't do a good job of digging potatoes in the fall. I'd still love to get a rototiller eventually. You, sir, have solidified my decision to leave the PTO alone, while being careful to cut and drill as little as possible throughout the build. Maybe next winter or the winter after, we rebuild the K301 or find a new one. Considering the fact that the crank spins freely while the piston that appears to have some damage stays up at TDC, while literally every piece you can take off of it is either damaged or missing, I know it ain't happening this winter and I doubt anyone is rebuilding this particular engine, ever.

3. 5 HP 2135 buggy. Sounds like that's a lot of effort for something destined to be totally useless and produce very little fun. Will note this and wait until empire of dirt provides me with a bigger engine or rids me of the parts.

- side note. I have another lawn tractor project build I'm accumulating parts for. I intend to run a standard automotive alternator as well as a second alternator that's been modified as a welder/generator and an automotive A/C compressor modified to be an air compressor. If I can't use the PTO to drive PTO driven accessories, maybe I should put all that stuff on the 12.5/127 and plan on swapping it back onto the 2135, or something built from parts of it, or just leaving it that way and getting a different garden tractor. Due to the nature of the pump as well as the ability to pulley swap for speed, I wanted to do this to a gear driven tractor, but the wheels are turning, especially realizing it can pull a pretty big wagon. Could be neat, lots of options, but probably a completely inappropriate forum. Anyone ever put a clutch on the Sunstrand? As a generator, there's potential that this unit could sit idling in one spot for extended periods of time. I don't want to waste too much fuel and energy wearing out a pump after I put it all together, if I put it all together. I'll be super excited if someone can tell me there's parts out there that I can use to make a gear driven Cub go 25mph in 3 hi, yet still pull that overloaded wagon up a hill in 1 lo, because I'm thinking that this might be possible, and I can't be the first guy to want to build something like this.