M18 seal problems

[Tater305]

ok you kohler fans this M18 is testing my patience apparently it dosent like oil. But here is the story I got this M18 in a 1862 cub and I have fixed the oil seals as much as I have ran the thing, well the old seals were good used ones but they still leaked so I bought new ones and it lasted a grand total of 2 min of run time and puked the front one out again. I have had this problem with this motor since I got it back in 2008. I sold the motor because of this problem in 2010 and now I got it back in 2011 when i bought the tractor because the po didnt have time to fix the problem of the oil seals and i still am having this problem I thought new seals would fix it but it didnt, i put the seals in the right way i even put permatex on them to keep them in and no use, the breather is good but I cant figure out why it is still doing this? anybody please if you can help me fix this cause I am at the point of giving up on this motor even running without leaking oil. Side note the last time I had this motor on a PSI gauge it was 60lbs at idle is this possibly the problem?

[ol'George]

I remember reading somewhere about a fellow who was having a seal problem, and it turned out a main bearing has slipped or turned causing the problem, but I don't remember if it was a m-18.
Are you putting the seal with the lip facing in?
Is it a good tight fit in the housing?
Is it the correct seal? the first series 1 has a smaller I.D and will ruin it upon instalation on a larger M-18 shaft. in the flywheel area.
Just some things to check. That engine is not known for a seal problem.
Are you blowing the seal out, or is it leaking around the shaft or the housing?

[Tater305]

yes the seal is the right one and yes I am putting it in the right way. If the seal leaks then it dosent blow it out but if the seal is a good one and it dosent leak then it blows the seal out. which tells me there is something building up to much pressure and is pushing the seals out. I dont mind taking the motor apart completely if it fix's the oil leaks cause other than that it is a good running motor but I would like to see if its something else I can fix before tearing the motor apart. the problem started after I had to fix the motor from a broke oil gear maybe I got something wrong but I dont know what it could be. I would just like to look over other options before i tear the motor all apart cause I really like the 1862 but I need to fix the oil leak before I blow the motor up and until now I just didnt work the motor because of this.

[CADplans]

I was at a dealer recently, he was explaining how to use a manometer to check engine condition.

You replace the dipstick in the K engine with a plug connected to the manometer.

The M could be connected with a plug in the fill tube.

He showed me the section in the manual that described how to use the manometer.

You can make a manometer with a few feet of clear tube, a ruler and some water.

The resultant readings predicted conditions/repairs needed.

[CHWNY]

It sure sounds like the crankcase is under pressure! I like the meter thing but Check the breather first you could also run w/ dipstick open (for a short time only, don't walk away) rubber band a gauze pad over the hole. If the breather is working there could be multiple causes. I would start there. Keep us posted!!!

[Vince_o]

Yes definatly check that breather.

I have a friend back in Pa that has 10 vanguards in his carpet cleaning vans. One of his kept leaking oil out the seal. After mutable phone calls I sent him a new breather and all the parts to fix it and such. Last report I got from him no more oil leakage and its running fine about 6 hrs a day.

This has to be frustrating to you cause those seals arnt chap. I runined one putting mine togeather.

[ol'George]

Originally Posted by Tater305

yes the seal is the right one and yes I am putting it in the right way. If the seal leaks then it dosent blow it out but if the seal is a good one and it dosent leak then it blows the seal out. which tells me there is something building up to much pressure and is pushing the seals out. I dont mind taking the motor apart completely if it fix's the oil leaks cause other than that it is a good running motor but I would like to see if its something else I can fix before tearing the motor apart. the problem started after I had to fix the motor from a broke oil gear maybe I got something wrong but I dont know what it could be. I would just like to look over other options before i tear the motor all apart cause I really like the 1862 but I need to fix the oil leak before I blow the motor up and until now I just didnt work the motor because of this.

You mentioned #60 oil pressure, when you replaced a broken oil pump gear, is it possible that the relief is stuck/inoperative?
Check the manual, but off the top of my head I'm remembering a little lower pressure than that.

Are you blowing both seals, or just the pto end?
why did the gear break,-- contamination or running without a relief operating properly?

That crank case design is meant to run under a slight vacuum, thus the manometer check mentioned.
If you are building pressure, it most generally comes from blow by, or the check valve in the rocker box isn't working correctly.
As you know, both pistons go out @ the same time, this is where the check closes so no air is sucked into the crankcase.
Then both pistone come together (toward the crank) if Air was allowed in, then this is where it would build pressure.
Now in the real world, as the rings wear, you get some blow by and it will slobber a little into the air cleaner from the vent hose but it shouldn't blow a noticeable pressure, or soak the air cleaner element
Just some things to mull in your head while looking for the problem.

[Tater305]

what would a gauze pad over the dip stick hole do? or did i miss something

I really cant run the motor too long cause the oil seal is out again so that wouldnt really tell me if there is a problem cause its loosing pressure there.

The flywheel side is always the seal to go out(figures so every time i fix it I have to pull the motor and that motor gets heavy after the 4th or 5th time in a day) as far as I know there is no blow by the air cleaner is clean and oil free and the motor only smokes when its cold at start up.

As far as the oil gear brakeing you will like this story its kinda long but i have to tell it all to fully understand. So I got this motor back in 2008 from a "lawn mower Repair shop"(you will see why I hyphenated that in a minute) they said they repaired a broken rod in it for a guy and he ended up replacing the motor as they were left with it. When I got it it ran fine when I could get it to run and one day when I was running it it decided to puck oil out the exhaust side I shut it down and couldnt figure out why. Well a couple days later I got a briggs to replace it in my pulling tractor I was building. So it sat on the floor and every once in awhile i would start it just to keep it good and I started to notice it would get hot real fast like after a minute of run time it would blow steam out the breather. Fast forward I got a cub and was going to put the motor in that and I had a oil pressure gauge to hook up and i hooked it up to the motor and guess what no oil pressure, so i pulled the motor out of the tractor and pulled the back plate off to check the oil gear and it wouldnt move. so i tore the motor completely down and guess what I found the oil gear in pieces and the OLD ROD from when the "lawn mower repair shop" fixed it but they left pieces of the old rod in it. SO fixed that fixed the one rod that was starting to stick cleaned the crank and put it back together and ever since then I cant keep oil seals in it so maybe I did something wrong. sorry for the story

[ajgross]

That thing should NOT be at 60# oil pressure. It should run around 25# to 30#. There is a ball and a spring behind the closure plate that is the oil pressure regulator. It sounds like that is your problem. I would pull the closure plate off and check it.

AJ

[Tater305]

AJ, how do I check this? how do i fix it if that is the problem? I know what you are talking about as far as were it is but how do I check if that is the problem? I am open to ideas but i am stuck until i get another front seal but I have learned i will bench start the motor in case it dose this again at least that will save me from having to remove it from the tractor again.