Whats considered low/high hours?

[Matt G.]

metalrain-

The wiring is overcomplicated. There are tons of safety switches and relays all over the place. No gauges, just idiot lights. I don't think the quality of the wires used was very good either. The Kohler Command seems to be a good motor. I've had one in my 582 for a year and a half. They use a lot less fuel than a comparable Magnum engine, but don't have quite the same torque.

[ccpullin]

Originally Posted by Merk

Here are some interresting facts from a Biggs and Stratton small motor class that I used to teach:
Average life of a push mower is 2-3 years.
Average life of a lawn tractor is 3-5 years.
Average life of a garden tractor is 7-8 years.
Sad to say the average small motor owner isn't too keen on preventive maintance.


I have a off topic garden tractor that I purchase new 14 years ago. It has a Briggs and Stratton Van Guard 2 cylinder that has 930 hours on it. It doesn't smoke or use any oil. The only motor problems I've had was gear on starter that I had to replace and fouling out champion spark plugs....It doesn't foul out Auto Lite plugs. Briggs claims this motor should last 2000 hours with no major problems.

Most motors will last more than a 1000 hours if the owner does the regular maintance like the follow the owner's manual maintance schedule. A good grade of fuel is a key item in making a motor last. Using a good quality replacement parts helps extend the life of a motor.




I have work on and driven Supers.....not at all impress with them. They need more room to turn and take more room to store. Only thing nice about a super is the power steering.

I too have worked on them all as for the past 30 years, I have worked at the local CC dealers part time. I have probably owned more than 100 of them as I would rebuild and sell them, back in the day they were actually "built well". Basically same parts, just a little heavier and few more of them. I also pulled stock/altered cubs (and outlaw) for close to 30 years with the last 10 using Supers because having that engine out front 6" more you could move more weight to the rear for traction and actually control them better.



Super Tractors vs. Standard This would be a great topic for discussion!

Supers advantages : Larger tires, wheels & front axle/spindles (traction & caring weight), more stable especially with equipment such as a loader on it, handles larger equipment (mowers, snow blades, tillers, blowers), steering brakes, power steering, larger engines, hydraulics, rear PTO's, more passenger room. I have found that you can actually steer them when blowing or pushing snow too!

Standard Tractor advantages: Shorter, take up less room, turn tighter, cheaper, use less fuel

Thats just my
worth though.

[Merk]

by ccpullin
Supers advantages : Larger tires, wheels & front axle/spindles (traction & caring weight), more stable especially with equipment such as a loader on it, handles larger equipment (mowers, snow blades, tillers, blowers), steering brakes, power steering, larger engines, hydraulics, rear PTO's, more passenger room. I have found that you can actually steer them when blowing or pushing snow too!

Standard Tractor advantages: Shorter, take up less room, turn tighter, cheaper, use less fuel

Big disadvantage(s) to supers is the attachments cost more and can be harder to install. The wiring under a super's hood and dash can be a pain to work on when you have a electrical problem. I haven't found a need for a rear pto. My 100 has a hydraulic system. It was new in 1964. Bigger motor use more gas....more $$$$. I can steer my 149 pushing snow and my off topic tractor blowing snow....no need for turn brakes. I have plenty of room on my 70 and 100 cosidering the seat is set so my 5 foot 4 inch Wife can drive them. Larger wheels and tires cost more $$$$. I get the best traction using 8.50 tires vs. the 10.50s ot 12.00s when I'm using my moldboard plow or front blade to move snow. Tractor pulling has traction rules that are different to a daily use tractor.


As for pulling the extra 6 inches of frame and hood adds some weight and takes away some moveable weight. The classes around here have a limit on how far the weight can hang out front and rear of the tractor. Tractor pullers in my area don't have turn brakes on them. It doesn't take too much lean to get the tractor steer when it is going down the track.

[ccpullin]

Originally Posted by Merk

Big disadvantage(s) to supers is the attachments cost more and can be harder to install. The wiring under a super's hood and dash can be a pain to work on when you have a electrical problem. I haven't found a need for a rear pto. My 100 has a hydraulic system. It was new in 1964. Bigger motor use more gas....more $$$$. I can steer my 149 pushing snow and my off topic tractor blowing snow....no need for turn brakes. I have plenty of room on my 70 and 100 cosidering the seat is set so my 5 foot 4 inch Wife can drive them. Larger wheels and tires cost more $$$$. I get the best traction using 8.50 tires vs. the 10.50s ot 12.00s when I'm using my moldboard plow or front blade to move snow. Tractor pulling has traction rules that are different to a daily use tractor.


As for pulling the extra 6 inches of frame and hood adds some weight and takes away some moveable weight. The classes around here have a limit on how far the weight can hang out front and rear of the tractor. Tractor pullers in my area don't have turn brakes on them. It doesn't take too much lean to get the tractor steer when it is going down the track.

Ok, I thought the question asked was between regular and super tractors, and not between supers and older IH built tractors but I am in because I have both!

The Super wiring is no different than standard of that year except for 2 wires going to the rear PTO clutch but yes there are more safety switches required on later tractors due to goverment regulations. Your pto turns backwards right? Do they make any implements for that? Your belt drive hydraulics is for a lift only? With dual brakes, if one tire spins you can brake it for traction. My supers have wide tires will go in deep snow and mud where my others tractors won't (thats why they place wide/tall tires on puling tractors and race trucks for traction advantages but yes they do cost more $$$) I have a cheaper single stage blower on my 149 that does not work near as well in heavy snow as the more expensive 2 stage on my super, and the heavier more expensive Haben blade on my super works much better than the little 42" on my 1650. Time wise, both snow blowers and blades take the same time for installation. Oh and yes, it uses more gas but I can mow my yard in half the time with the bigger mower so I break even there.

As for pulling, 6" of frame weighs about 2 pounds but you move that heavy 100 pound engine 6" more forward of the rear axle and that is what makes the BIG difference! Also you are right, you are limited how far you can place weight in front of the tractor but it is the same on both Supers & regular tractors and that 100 pound engine 6" forward usually allowed me to move the 40 pounds of weight from the front to the rear over the rear tires and still have the right balance. As for hoods, they are the same on both tractors as the 6" is at the rear of the frame. As for brakes on stockers and stock altered, you don't use them in fact I ran a locked rear end and yes, with a locker it does make a BIG difference with that longer frame being more stable. Yes, it is a challenge to lean and make the tractor steer with a locked rear end!

Do you pull garden tractors too?

[ccpullin]

Originally Posted by metalrain

So, what kind of wiring issues do they have? Is it fixable?
How about the kohler command? any issues there?
The paint and plastic is something i can deal with. I guess i hesitate alittle, the cabs nice, but don't really need it.
Heres the pic...not that you can tell anything from the picture.



Metalrain

Looks like a nice tractor! I have had no electrical wiring issues at all, although I have seen some on the diesel 1782 and the Kawasaki 2086. I see the grill is missing. Check the plastic tabs on the side panels, the plastic on the hood where the hinge bolts attach and the front grill surround for cracks down low where it attaches to the frame. The Kohler Command is a good engine but the baffle in the muffler will usually come loose and rattle ($200.00 for a muffler but I have cut the end open and welded them before). The paint problems are because they are powder coated and rust. Usually the biggest problem is with the mower deck. What size deck? The 60" Haben does not mow very good. The 54" is best for that size tractor although they do come with a 48" also. Tires look original and that is usually the first give away on hours. If he will let you, check the front axle/spindle bushings for looseness. Does it have a rear 3 pt. hitch or PTO? I would be interested in purchasing the cab to help reduce costs also!

[squatch]

As for the original question. I say go for if you like it and it's in good shape. I'm on my 1st CC and it is a super 1872. I love the room and the stability on slopes is amazing compared to my old GT. I wish I had bought this tractor years ago!
If you don't need the cab I'd love to have it! My super does a few things I wouldn't think of doing with a much smaller GT.
Like this and it will pull this boat up the grass hill of my backyard no problem. It's around 1500lbs.

You probably ain't moving this full of wood with a 7hp tractor.


As said above the blade on my super has more in common with a pickup blade than one for most modern GTs. I can pick it up but don't carry it around by myself.

[Matt G.]

Just an FYI, that cab will probably only fit another Cyclops model correctly. The fenders are very different from those of the earlier models.

[squatch]

Originally Posted by Matt G.

Just an FYI, that cab will probably only fit another Cyclops model correctly. The fenders are very different from those of the earlier models.

I figured. It's the thought that counts. Not real practical he's only about 1200 miles from here. But after plowing and blowing 3 times in the last 2 days it looks mighty comfy!

[Merk]

by ccpullin
Ok, I thought the question asked was between regular and super tractors, and not between supers and older IH built tractors but I am in because I have both!

Are you trying to tell us that a IH Cub Cadet is not a regular garden tractor?

by ccpullin
Your belt drive hydraulics is for a lift only?

The IH Cub Cadets have the ability to have down pressure.

by ccpullin
My supers have wide tires will go in deep snow and mud where my others tractors won't (thats why they place wide/tall tires on puling tractors and race trucks for traction advantages but yes they do cost more $$$)

You gain 1 1/2 of ground clearance compaired to my IH Cubs...not enough to make any difference. As I said earlier there is a huge difference in the traction department when you compare pulling-race trucks and everyday use. A puller with any experence should know that.

by ccpullin
I have a cheaper single stage blower on my 149 that does not work near as well in heavy snow as the more expensive 2 stage on my super

I know several that change the pulley size on the snow thrower....they do a good job moving snow. The cheaper snow thrower does the job I ask it to do.

by squatch
You probably ain't moving this full of wood with a 7hp tractor.

That trailer looks like a 6 foot long and 4 foot wide?
I've hauled wood with my 100 pulling a 4 foot wide and 8 foot long trailer. I don't need tire chains to haul wood. My 70 wasn't together at that time. There is no doubt in my mind it would have handle it.

Last spring my Dad's 2182 wouldn't turn over. There is 3 pages of wiring diagrams for a 2182 plus there is no room to check wires. My old IH Cubs have only 1 page. There is not a seperate page for rear pto or safety switches.

[ccpullin]

Originally Posted by Merk

Are you trying to tell us that a IH Cub Cadet is not a regular garden tractor?

We were speaking of Regular Cub Cadet Tractors vs. Super Cub Cadet Tractors.


The IH Cub Cadets have the ability to have down pressure.

Down pressure is not the total answer. With a heavier blade it can float and follow the ground. Yes you can use the down pressure, but then you take weight off of the front steering axle. The SGT blade is taller also and 4 trip springs.

You gain 1 1/2 of ground clearance compaired to my IH Cubs...not enough to make any difference. As I said earlier there is a huge difference in the traction department when you compare pulling-race trucks and everyday use. A puller with any experence should know that.

Its not only the ground clearance. Tire diameter and width makes a big difference in traction. Thats why they they install larger tires on garden tractors vs. lawn tractors also (foot print and rolling diameter). Do you pull tractors? If so, you should know that.


I know several that change the pulley size on the snow thrower....they do a good job moving snow. The cheaper snow thrower does the job I ask it to do.

2 stage blower vs. single stage. No comparison! 2 stage taller also for drifts.

That trailer looks like a 6 foot long and 4 foot wide?
I've hauled wood with my 100 pulling a 4 foot wide and 8 foot long trailer. I don't need tire chains to haul wood. My 70 wasn't together at that time. There is no doubt in my mind it would have handle it.

Last spring my Dad's 2182 wouldn't turn over. There is 3 pages of wiring diagrams for a 2182 plus there is no room to check wires. My old IH Cubs have only 1 page. There is not a seperate page for rear pto or safety switches.

Like I said, goverment regulations for safety.

Sounds like your dad has a Super Cub Cadet Tractor. I take it he likes it or he would be using a Regular Cub Cadet Garden Tractor too?