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  #31  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:34 AM
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sawdustdad sawdustdad is online now
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Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Really? Next time you overhaul an engine look. You can see through it.
I guess I just never noticed it. Or payed any attention to it.
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2018, 01:44 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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Jon,
Never said anything about not being able to get a 20-under rod, I see them offered often,
I just don't much care for much of the currently available offshore sourced parts. I already have a few left over rods, so I figured rather than just tossing them into the scrap bin, if I can still use them, why not?
I have 3 more k series engines sitting here that i want to go thru, if I can prep these otherwise "junk" rods for reuse, and I can get inserts, I can use any of the rods I have on any of the engines that I have.
Make sense?
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  #33  
Old 03-13-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
Jon,
Never said anything about not being able to get a 20-under rod, I see them offered often,
I just don't much care for much of the currently available offshore sourced parts. I already have a few left over rods, so I figured rather than just tossing them into the scrap bin, if I can still use them, why not?
I have 3 more k series engines sitting here that i want to go thru, if I can prep these otherwise "junk" rods for reuse, and I can get inserts, I can use any of the rods I have on any of the engines that I have.
Make sense?
Well, it only kind of makes sense. Like I said, it was going to cost me just a bit more to remachine a rod and buy a bearing than to buy a rod. I'm more interested in price. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving things if it's economical, but I'm not going to spend more just to reuse a "bad" part. Also, I don't understand what issue you would have with an "offshore" part. I've installed lots of them with no issues. I don't think what you are doing is in the best interest of you, or the customer, unless you can find someone to remachine the rod cheaper than I can. Plus, you have to remember it's an aluminum rod. How much fatigue does it already have? I don't think it's worth the risk. Now, if you buy a billet rod, that's totally different.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2018, 02:50 PM
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darkminion_17 darkminion_17 is offline
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Now, if you buy a billet rod, that's totally different.
What kinda metal is billet, old bullets?
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by darkminion_17 View Post
What kinda metal is billet, old bullets?
Lew, I can't tell if your just joking, lol.
For the record, billet means it was machined from a solid piece of material. In this case, aluminum. The stock rods are cast aluminum.
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Old doesn't mean obsolete, and new doesn't mean better.

Runners: 1050, 1811, 185LB, JD 317
On the "back burner": 2-71's, 1250DS, 1000, 582, 682, 982, JD 318.
I have over 30 implements/attachments! IH, Cub Cadet, Brinly, Agrifab, and more!
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:33 PM
dodge trucker dodge trucker is offline
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in this case the customer is me. This is for one of my own machines.
largely want to do this as an experimental thing.... I understand trying to scrimp and save if you're spending someone else's money as long as the end result Is essentially the same. which it would be if I did as you said and just "bought a rod"...
and sometimes I question things even though I know the answer or at least "kinda" know the answer, and talk about it on the applicable forums because I figure I can't be the only guy on a given forum wondering about the same thing....... so others can see the results and put in their experiences, sources, etc..... my point isn't just to solely "", though sometimes it seems so...
and when I am doing work on my own stuff, a "few" bucks one way or the other, in the overall scheme of things, don't really bother me in the end, I like trying out different ways to "skin a cat" sometimes, and am more likely to do so on my own stuff, than on somebody else's
if I can use any 1 rod that I have on hand, regardless of crank machine work needed among them, simply by just swapping different inserts, that has its merits too....
never said this was the "only" way to solve the issue, or even the "best" way.... not trying to open that can of worms.... if this one don't work out, then in the future I'll just buy rods and I'll know how well this idea works out---- or don't.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dodge trucker View Post
in this case the customer is me. This is for one of my own machines.
largely want to do this as an experimental thing.... I understand trying to scrimp and save if you're spending someone else's money as long as the end result Is essentially the same. which it would be if I did as you said and just "bought a rod"...
and sometimes I question things even though I know the answer or at least "kinda" know the answer, and talk about it on the applicable forums because I figure I can't be the only guy on a given forum wondering about the same thing....... so others can see the results and put in their experiences, sources, etc..... my point isn't just to solely "", though sometimes it seems so...
and when I am doing work on my own stuff, a "few" bucks one way or the other, in the overall scheme of things, don't really bother me in the end, I like trying out different ways to "skin a cat" sometimes, and am more likely to do so on my own stuff, than on somebody else's
if I can use any 1 rod that I have on hand, regardless of crank machine work needed among them, simply by just swapping different inserts, that has its merits too....
never said this was the "only" way to solve the issue, or even the "best" way.... not trying to open that can of worms.... if this one don't work out, then in the future I'll just buy rods and I'll know how well this idea works out---- or don't.
For many years we "reconditioned" rods, espically those that spun a bearing in the rod
A little was milled off the cap or rod, and then it was honed back to size, restoring it to take a normal replacement bearing.( using a sunnen rod hone)
Before that,
we had shims to take out between the cap & rod to tighten the clearance.
When we ran out of shims, we filied the cap to tighten them some more.
Did it work, hell yes.
Until 1953 chevy had poured babbit rod bearings ( read no inserts) and the rods had "dippers" that got oil out of curved troughs in the oil pan for lubrication as they rotated, I remember them well.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ol'George View Post
For many years we "reconditioned" rods, espically those that spun a bearing in the rod
A little was milled off the cap or rod, and then it was honed back to size, restoring it to take a normal replacement bearing.( using a sunnen rod hone)
That's still practiced.... on cast or forged rods that have a tongue and groove, or even smooth rod caps. But when they went to powder forged, fractured rods, you can't do it to those. If you spin a bearing, you have to buy new. On occasion I still remachine a rod.


Don,
I still don't really get it.... I do kind of think you are But I guess I am too......
I'm going on memory here, but I think I was quoted around $40 or $50 to remachine a rod to accept a bearing. Plus the bearing, at about $20 with shipping. That is between $60 and $70 for a rod, that maybe, just maybe will be able to be used again. A .020" under rod is $40 free shipping on ebay. You listed 4 engines that you have to overhaul. If my numbers are correct, you will spend $80 more on these engines, assuming that you need all .020" under rods. If you only need .010" under, a new rod is about $31.... so it just made you spend even more. Plus, I think it's important to point out that the 10HP uses a different rod. The 12 and 14 use the same, and I *think* the 16 also uses the same rod, but I don't know. Sticks in my mind there was something different on the 16 rod..... it has a different part number, but in aftermarket, some fit all 3. Maybe it was the length of the dipper. I can't recall. Point is, make sure you are using the correct rod if you are machining ones to put in.
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Old doesn't mean obsolete, and new doesn't mean better.

Runners: 1050, 1811, 185LB, JD 317
On the "back burner": 2-71's, 1250DS, 1000, 582, 682, 982, JD 318.
I have over 30 implements/attachments! IH, Cub Cadet, Brinly, Agrifab, and more!
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2018, 09:08 PM
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Had another thought:

I'm not condemning what you are doing at all. I looked into it myself, but only because I wanted a better alternative. It is an alternative, just not an economical one. I'm all for finding different sources, or finding a better way. But you have to look at the economical aspect too. While a babbit rod bearing is a good thing, there is nothing wrong with an aluminum rod with no insert, and it's cheaper. I just really think it's that simple. The most economical way to rebuild a K series is with aftermarket parts, nothing fancy, and a good machine shop. Most of the things you do that make it last are during machining and part fitment.... but also in PM service, such as keeping the engine clean and tuned. This is a good discussion though.
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~Jonathan

Old doesn't mean obsolete, and new doesn't mean better.

Runners: 1050, 1811, 185LB, JD 317
On the "back burner": 2-71's, 1250DS, 1000, 582, 682, 982, JD 318.
I have over 30 implements/attachments! IH, Cub Cadet, Brinly, Agrifab, and more!
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  #40  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:29 AM
mickb72 mickb72 is offline
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Fatigue, that's the reason for a new rod. I was always told never put in a used rod. I've used aftermarket parts from 2 of the main sellers, no problems. My guy machined a new aftermarket rod for $25 + bearing $17. Been a few years and that was for a 16hp 4000 rpm puller. Some 16 or 18 hp singles had rods stamped Alcoa, those are the good ones. Mike
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