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  #1  
Old 10-20-2014, 11:15 PM
mike44107 mike44107 is offline
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Default Choke all the time now a recent issue

Hi Everyone!

It's been awhile and hope all is well! My beautiful Cadet AGS 2160 with Vangard 16hp 303447 has ran into an issue.. Here is my story!


A few weeks back I pulled my riding mower out and ran it parked and idle throttle due to the fact it sat unused for a few months an the battery was almost dead. So as it ran I went back in the house and started doing some tiling.. I came back out say 30mins later hoping the battery fully charged.. Well I noticed the engine was off. First thing I did was check the fuel and empty.. So I filled it with fresh gas and turned it over, started within a few tries.. Ran fine, parked it and went back inside.. So the other day I decided to start it again and use it around the yard.. Started right up and then a minute later it began to bog down and finally die.. I tried and tried and tried different things to get it going again.. By now the battery is almost dead and I am running low on ideas.. I pull the full hose to the carb and try to crank it. Fuel pours out ok and smells fine.. So then I thought last idea. I unscrew the top of the carb and look inside.. filled with fuel and looks good.. Then i look closer in the bowl and noticed what looks like old fuel at the bottom and newer fuel at top.. I smell it and the fuel is odorless knowing its bad fuel. I cover the air intake port and absorb as much fuel out and then blow out the rest. Then blew out all the port holes on the carb as well. Refill the carb bowel with fresh fuel and then throw the cover back on. Take out the spark plugs and blow them out along with the cylinders. Turn it over and it starts right away.. and keeps running! running great now. I ease of the choke and the engine dies right away.. Anyway after playing and playing with it. I have noticed the engine will only run with choke on low and full throttle. I would assume this is due to the engine starving of fuel?

I am thinking my next try is to pull apart the fuel pump and clean it or is there something else I should look for? I have a clear fuel filer on the line and its clean looking. It appears all the old fuel is purged from the system. Anyone else here ran into this issue?

I love this little mower so its something always in the back of my head and never enough time to look at it!

Thanks guys!
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:04 AM
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Berwil Berwil is offline
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If you need to choke it, it's lean. Sounds like it sucked dirt into the carb when it ran out of fuel. I think another thorough carb cleaning is in order before tearing into the fuel pump, especially if you already checked and has good flow. I remember reading here that those vanguards are set lean from the factory because of emissions, doesn't take much to cause a problem.

Bill
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:21 AM
mike44107 mike44107 is offline
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Thank you for the reply Bill. I'll pickup some carb cleaner and take the top back off and do that. Also, maybe I will add something to the tank. Do you suggest anything? I have tried Sea foam in the past.. However, I am starting to think that stuff is snake oil...
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:16 AM
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J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Take the carb completely off the engine. Pulling the top off and "spraying out" isn't going to help. You need to disassemble the whole carb. There is something blocking the fuel passage.

Sea Foam is a great product. It works. But it only can do so much. It doesn't eat dirt out of the carb like acid, it's just a fuel system cleaner. Does a lot more for carbon than anything. From the issues your having I'd suggest cleaning the fuel tank too.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:24 PM
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Berwil Berwil is offline
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I agree with Jon (that statement is a no brainer when it comes to engines), your gonna need to get in there a physically clean it out. Someone said they strip the wire out of a bread tie and use it to poke in all the openings, sounds like a good idea.

Out of everything I've tried, I like seafoam the best. It won't clear out debris, but is good at dissolving carbon and gunk.

While your at it, check the condition of your fuel lines, make sure they are not brittle or too spongy. If so, replace them or they could become a source for carb blocking debris.

Bill
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:04 PM
Merk Merk is offline
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Is your Van Guard using champion spark plugs? They don't work very well once they are gas fouled and try to clean them. Are you using a Briggs air filter? Try running your engine without the air filter. Brigg's air filters are known to plug up real easy.

I wouldn't use sea foam. I never had any good luck with that product. Any product like that is a short term fix.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:37 PM
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Sam Mac Sam Mac is offline
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You should be able to clean most of the carb from the top on a Vanny. In order to remove it you need to pull the engine because the bolts come in from the bottom of the intake manifold as you can see in this pic.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:24 PM
mike44107 mike44107 is offline
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Wow guys! Thanks for all the replies! I feel special! LOL

So here is how it went.. oddly..

I go out and get ready to to do my major carb cleaning with all the suggestions! I walk out, decide I will at least try to start it one more time and let it run before I take it apart and then mess something up so it may never run again..

So I pull the choke and turn it over.. Starts up after a few cranks.. let it sit there.. after about 10 seconds on choke. It starts to spit and sputter and act like it wants to die.. Naturally, I decided to push the choke down.. then instantly it starts running fine! A cloud of white smoke came out for a few seconds and then all dissipated..
,
So oddly enough it's running normal again.. Dunno, what all the white smoke was about, but happy its running..
It did start ticking loud, on later examination, I found out it was the exhaust rocker on the left cylinder is too much free play. I'll fix it later..


Would you guys still suggest putting some kinda cleaner in the fuel take? If so what would you suggest?


Also, yes, it has a newer air filter, green foam filter and 2 Champion spark plugs that look decent.. (low carbon buildup)
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:56 PM
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When I check fuel flow to the carb, I catch the gas in a clean glass container. If there is any water in the fuel, you can see it separate from the gas. Also shows up any dirt in the fuel.
Richard
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike44107 View Post
Wow guys! Thanks for all the replies! I feel special! LOL

Also, yes, it has a newer air filter, green foam filter and 2 Champion spark plugs that look decent.. (low carbon buildup)
Try a set of Auto Lites. My Van Guard would not run more than 20 hours on a set of champions. It was never the same cylinder.
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