Recent International pick up

[twoton]

Last week I picked up a new piece of equipment that I will be using at work. Spent a bit of time this week cleaning out the fuel system and such, got it running and ready to do an oil change. Got into it enough today to find the engine tag. And oil filter. Engine: International UD 282. (kind of surprised at that as the PO told me it had a JD in it) Oil filter calls for Series 3 oil,? Any thoughts? Not familiar with this.

[Sam Mac]

Rotella T, Mobil Delvac or equal for the oil.

[bocephus1991]

Is it a stationary engine? A 282 diesel? That was used in some IH stationary engines far all 560, 656, early 706's some combines oh and in the farmall 650 and in some trucks in believe too. If it were me my opinion I'd stick to 30wt oil unless it's gonna be used in cold weather then 10w30 . Reason being is those engines weren't designed to use any other weight of oil and the oil passages aren't that big and 15w40 can damage the engine due to poor lubrication. That's my 2cents!

[twoton]

I appreciate your help guys.

Brian, yes 282 diesel. It's in a asphalt/vibratory roller.

Thanks again.

[twoton]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Lots of glow plugs are 11v glow plugs. Still a 12V system. I don't know why you don't think you can jump it with your truck.... because you can.

Didn’t want to high jack Bob’s thread;

This is what led me to the decision to not jump it with my work truck. This is from a discussion on redpowermagazine;

“You say it had a bulge on end of glow plug. That usually comes from high voltage. High voltage is generally caused by using a battery charger while cranking or even a jump start from another vehicle that is running. In fact, I never press glow plug switch while running after I have let loose of it. The glow plugs ordinarily draw enough current that if you keep them on during cranking and after it first starts, which you should do until it clears, your charging system will not be able to charge enough to cause voltage to rise above acceptable levels for the glow plugs. I have seen many glow plugs, spanking new, burned out right now when jump starting. I have no idea what make your replacement glow plugs are but even the IH factory ones are extremely high voltage sensitive. A normal charging voltage of 14.5 can and will burn out glow plugs. Now, if you happen to have an alternator on that machine, it will probably put out enough amperage, even with the glow plugs on, that the voltage can rise to high levels. Original generators were only 35 amperes and glow plugs draw more than that so voltage would not rise high enough to hurt glow plugs if you kept them on , BUT , you could burn them out if putting them back on after engine started and ran a little while. Just a suggestion.”

http://www.redpowermagazine.com/foru...art-diagnosis/



and

https://www.steinertractor.com/IHS1604-glow-plug

Although I have, on occation jumped it with the Ford 3930 which also has the alternator “detuned” to 11 volts + /-.

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/...pick-up.54986/

[J-Mech]

Thanks for continuing the discussion here. I didn't want to hijack that thread either.... but this is a good discussion.


Yes. There is much truth to high voltage burning up a glow plug. Over use or extended "burn" time will get them too.

That said, this is sensitive, but there are ways around the issue. The guy on Red Power is correct. The original electrical system on those engines is pretty light duty. Low amp generator and such. It is true that a battery charger on boost, or a jump starting from a vehicle with an alternator can burn them out.... but only if they are left on too long. (In the case of jump starting.) The original plugs need held on for 60-90 seconds. That's a long time.

Some things to consider:
You don't say why it is you have to jump it. If it's just that the battery is dead, then you can charge the battery, then try starting it. If the battery is weak.... well, I don't want to be obvious, but you should replace it. (I do completely understand if you don't use the machine a lot, so you don't want to spend a bunch of money on something with little use.) Maybe you are jumping it because it just simply doesn't want to start..... whatever the issue, there is an issue. Perhaps just look into fixing it.

If jumping it is necessary just to start it (even with a good battery) and you aren't going to spend the money to (???? rebuild the engine or fuel system) and just want it to start and run, then when you do jump it, try it with the jumping vehicle off. If you need the jumping vehicle to be on to get enough power, then warm up the glow plugs before attaching it, and once it starts, only hold the plugs on for a maybe 10 seconds. (You may be able to go longer, but I wouldn't go over 12 or 15.) Wait that long and do it again. At 14V they will burn up if overheated, but simply holding them on for a short er time will likely keep that from happening. The more expensive the glow plug, the better they are.

Other thing you could do is replace the glow plug with the newer RX style like a Power Stroke used. They are much better, last longer, get hotter...ect, ect than the original style... BUT you have to re-thread the cup as they have a metric thread. Might be one that is a bolt in fit, but you would have to research that. I don't know of one off the top of my head.

But, you can jump it with a running truck.... just have to be more careful. Since the glow plug system on that engine is manual, just cycle them for less time. That's the big thing. Cycling them while cranking will be fine, it's after starting or before you have to be careful. That's why I suggest cycling them on just the battery, or with the jumping vehicle off.

I don't care much for those old glow plug IH motors. Before I spend a ton of time and money on it, I'd look for a gas engine, or a D360 IH motor to drop in it. The D360 was basically the replacement for the D282. I don't know how that machine is set up, but in a tractor, the D360 will bolt right in with minor frame mods. Same basic length and such. The D360 was also put in a lot of small trucks and was a very common school bus motor. You can usually get them for a reasonable price. MUCH better engine. If you got a truck engine, you may need to swap the injection pump for one with a variable speed governor instead of a speed limiting governor. (I don't know which type of governor that machine uses.)

Was that helpful?

[twoton]

Sure Jon, it's always helpful when we can engage in positive discussions with knowledgeable people with similar interests. Thanks for that.

If you or anyone else, have the interest and time, check out my thread that I linked to on heavyequipment in my last post. I detailed what I've done thus far and the machine starts and runs very well. Except for the new coolant leak

I did consider the Power Stroke glow plug upgrade but once I bench tested all the ones I had and they were all good I saw no reason.

The biggest improvement in starting came after I installed the boost pump in the fuel system.

This machine is a blast to operate and the sound of that 282 reminds me of Grandfather on the farm when I was a kid in Montgomery County.

And... the Dark One would be very proud of me as I definitely got it for a Lew price!

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by twoton

Sure Jon, it's always helpful when we can engage in positive discussions with knowledgeable people with similar interests. Thanks for that.

I'm glad! I am not sure what I like more.... old iron, IH's or if I just like solving "puzzles". Maybe it's all the above.

Originally Posted by twoton

If you or anyone else, have the interest and time, check out my thread that I linked to on heavyequipment in my last post. I detailed what I've done thus far and the machine starts and runs very well. Except for the new coolant leak

Well, I went and read the whole thread. Wish I could see the pics, but I'm not a member of that site... I don't really want to join up, lol.

Sounds like you have gotten it to where it starts good! I don't think I'd worry too much about doing any improvements to the glow plugs. If you can hold them on for 10 seconds and it gets things fired off..... that motor is OK. Just make sure the battery is charged and you should be fine. I don't know how big a battery you can get on it (how much room you have) but I'd consider going to the (very) large 12V high CCA battery. (See below)

Just an example:
12-volt-marine-and-rv.jpg


They hold enough of a charge that you should have enough to get the glow plugs warm and crank it quite a while before it goes dead. Any option that gets you more CCA's is good. Two batteries. Either two 12V's in a parallel, or two large 6V's (4EH batteries) in a series like IH tractors used is good. Those large 6V batteries have like 800+ CCA's so two of them is big time CCA. Just something to consider. Sounds like you don't use it much, so whatever you think. Maybe easier to just jump it.


On the leaking head gasket..... I wouldn't worry about it. It's a common thing on those engines. There is a very good chance that a new head gasket won't fix it. The D361 and D407 engines were bad about that as well. If you aren't losing too much fluid out of it.... I'd leave it. BTDT, and so have others. A lot of time you end up planing the head AND the block deck to get it to quit. Not worth it for the small leak. I've seen D407's leak like that only under heavy load and do it for years and years and never get worse. Just a design flaw. Besides..... those D282's were HORRIBLE about the heads cracking. You might be unhappy if you pull the head. I'd put money on the head being cracked. Not all cracks leak coolant, but they crack between the valves and from the valves to the injectors. I pulled one D282 apart one time....... 15 cracks in the head. (No joke. That's not an exaggeration.) It had still been running, but not well. Yeah.... I'd let it go. If you do decide to tear into it, holler if you need help!

[twoton]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Jon and I appreciate your offer of help with the head gasket.

My understanding is that the heads on the 282 are known to come loose so I did re-torque the head bolts and that has helped. Coolant loss is very low and so far no oil in the water or water in the oil so for now I'm gonna run it the way it is.

[mrfred54]

gave you tried using stop leak in the radiator. it common for these motors to seep antifreeze out the back of the head. if there is no crack that should stop your leak. I always use silver paint on the head gasket when assembling the engine. this is an old trick us old mechanics used on the d282