Troubleshooting a Kohler Command 27 (confirming not seized, no start)?

[zuren]

Originally Posted by Sam Mac

Lot's of choices here.
https://www.google.com/#q=kohler+25-098-09-S

You tube vid of what a typical starter looks like inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EHQJDhxZc0

Thanks for the video link. The video after that one looks closer to the starter off my tractor.

After watching those videos and some thought today, I think I will try to open it up and see if it is a matter of cleaning things up on the inside. It can't be used as-is so what's the harm? How many here have ever just "cleaned up" a weakly functioning starter and been successful? How long did the fix last?

[Sam Mac]

I've done a few. So far the results have been good. You have nothing to lose at this point. take it apart, clean up the brushes and the commutator with some fine emery cloth, put some grease in the bearings and put it back together. Check all of your battery cables to make sure the connections are good. Cubs are notorious for bad grounds. DB electric has a good reputation and good pricing if you end up going for a new starter.

[zuren]

I got the starter apart tonight and I'm not finding the horror show I was expecting. Here are the pics so please let me know if looks like a starter that is weak/failing. There is definitely a little corrosion and the commutator along with the inside of the case could be polished a bit. But this isn't the greasy, dirty mess that I saw in videos so some feedback would be great (warning: image heavy):















Thanks!

[Sam Mac]

Clean it up as I suggested and it should be good. Looks about like most that I've worked on. Commutator needs a little TLC, brushes probably also have a glaze on them.

[zuren]

Update

As suggested, I cleaned up what I could - shined up the commutator, cleaned and shined the magnets, removed the brush assembly and shined those contacts, lightly sanded the brushes down to remove any glaze and applied a small amount of grease where it looked to be needed and no change in behavior. Still won't crank the engine. It did seem to spin better during an unloaded bench test.

Did I miss something or is that about as far as I can go?

[J-Mech]

Order a new one. Unless you have a growler to test the armature, your done.

[ironman]

Originally Posted by zuren

Update

As suggested, I cleaned up what I could - shined up the commutator, cleaned and shined the magnets, removed the brush assembly and shined those contacts, lightly sanded the brushes down to remove any glaze and applied a small amount of grease where it looked to be needed and no change in behavior. Still won't crank the engine. It did seem to spin better during an unloaded bench test.

Did I miss something or is that about as far as I can go?

I'm just curious, are you cranking the engine with the spark plugs in or removed?

If removed, how does it crank? Fast, slow, not at all....

I'm just trying to eliminate other things such as ACR, valve timing, etc. before you throw money at a starter.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by ironman

I'm just curious, are you cranking the engine with the spark plugs in or removed?

If removed, how does it crank? Fast, slow, not at all....

I'm just trying to eliminate other things such as ACR, valve timing, etc. before you throw money at a starter.

No ACR on that engine.
It's overhead valve. If the timing was messed up, pushrods will be bent, and it likely would be making lots of noises.
It's the starter.

[zuren]

Originally Posted by ironman

I'm just curious, are you cranking the engine with the spark plugs in or removed?

If removed, how does it crank? Fast, slow, not at all....

I'm just trying to eliminate other things such as ACR, valve timing, etc. before you throw money at a starter.

The starter energizes and I hear the bendix shoot out but it doesn't even try to turn/crank the engine. This is done by jumping the starter directly from the battery so I'm taking all of the safety switches out of the equation. When I turn the engine over by hand, it is relatively smooth with the spark plugs removed.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

No ACR on that engine.
It's overhead valve. If the timing was messed up, pushrods will be bent, and it likely would be making lots of noises.
It's the starter.

Just placed an order for a new starter from DB Electric on Amazon. The moment of truth should be on Friday. The only thing I think I see on the DB Electric starter is there is no push-on tab for the existing starter connection. I may have to switch the wire to a ring connector which is no problem; the existing connector looks oxidized anyway.

Thank you for the help so far!

[zuren]

UPDATE

New starter + new battery = tractor that cranks! But she did not fire or cough. I pulled the plugs and they were dry; removed the air filter and carb did not smell like fuel.

Next steps are to clean up ground connections, check for spark, and sort out what appears to be a fuel delivery issue. The fuel filter looks like it could be original from 2005. Don't know if the fuel pump works.

Speaking of the ground connection, that I've read has a bad reputation on Cub Cadets, I can see that the main ground wire drops down the right side of the dash, goes into a harness, crosses to the left side, drops down to the frame, then makes a turn to the rear of the tractor and disappears under the dash and foot/seat pan. Is it accessible from underneath or am I better off installing a new ground wire?

Thanks!