Troubleshooting a Kohler Command 27 (confirming not seized, no start)?

zuren · #1 11-26-2016, 09:50 PM

Hello All! I'm a new member with a new-to-me Cub Cadet SLT1554 with a Kohler Command 27 (CV740S) that I scavenged off the side of the road. I'm trying to sort out what is wrong with it and was hoping for some guidance.

Overall, the condition is a little rough but I'm looking to make this an extra lawn tractor for the wife or see if I can get it running and sell it. I spoke to the guy getting rid of it and he claimed there was a starting problem he was tired of chasing and a PTO engagement problem but was otherwise operational. It looks like the tractor was stored outside every day of its life and I'm noticing most of the contacts are pretty nasty so I'm guessing oxidized contacts may be the root of my problem.

I'm going to start going through the no start issue tomorrow but I want to see if the engine will roll over by hand first. Not that I don't trust the guy, but I want to make sure the engine isn't seized before I put another minute of effort into it. I'm not familiar with this engine so what is the best approach to get a hand or wrench on the crank to try to roll it over? Looking from the top, I don't see a nut or the end of the crank.

Thanks!

Sam Mac · #2 11-27-2016, 01:53 PM

Put the wrench on the bolt that holds the PTO on. You should be able to turn it with your hand on the screen also.

ironman · #3 11-27-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Mac

Put the wrench on the bolt that holds the PTO on. You should be able to turn it with your hand on the screen also.

It wouldn't hurt to pull the spark plugs while doing this. Shoot some WD40 in the holes, should turn fairly easy.

By the way, if that hood looks as good on the other side, it could bring you $150.

zuren · #4 11-27-2016, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the tip on turning the fan grill. I did not realize that moved. Good news; the engine spins freely.

I played around with the starting issue today. All I hear is the starter gear shoot out but nothing else. I was not convinced the battery was good so I had it tested and tried to have the starter tested. Battery came back as bad but Autozone could not test the starter. Apparently it has to be a known model in their tester's database in order to be analyzed.

Once I was back home, I did a DIY bench test on the starter. When I applied 12v from a good battery (bigger, more amps) and jumped the starter connection, the starter activated and spun but it seemed slow. So it seems to be working, I just don't know how well. I bolted everything back together and repeated the procedure using the good battery (bypassing the safety switches on the starting circuit of the CC) and it failed to turn the engine over.

So I'm a bit perplexed. Is there a chance that the starter is weak and no longer has the torque to turn the engine over? I'm going to try to find a shop tomorrow who may be able to test it for me.

Thanks!

zuren · #5 11-27-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman

By the way, if that hood looks as good on the other side, it could bring you $150.

The top decal is damaged on the other side and the latch that keeps the hood secured is busted off (apparently a common issue). Previous owner had a bungy cord holding it. The plastic mount for the latch is broken off so a replacement latch isn't an option. I'll see if I can come up with something.

Sam Mac · #6 11-28-2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuren

Thanks for the tip on turning the fan grill. I did not realize that moved. Good news; the engine spins freely.

I played around with the starting issue today. All I hear is the starter gear shoot out but nothing else. I was not convinced the battery was good so I had it tested and tried to have the starter tested. Battery came back as bad but Autozone could not test the starter. Apparently it has to be a known model in their tester's database in order to be analyzed.

Once I was back home, I did a DIY bench test on the starter. When I applied 12v from a good battery (bigger, more amps) and jumped the starter connection, the starter activated and spun but it seemed slow. So it seems to be working, I just don't know how well. I bolted everything back together and repeated the procedure using the good battery (bypassing the safety switches on the starting circuit of the CC) and it failed to turn the engine over.

So I'm a bit perplexed. Is there a chance that the starter is weak and no longer has the torque to turn the engine over? I'm going to try to find a shop tomorrow who may be able to test it for me.

Thanks!

Probably wouldn't hurt to take the starter apart and check the brushes and commutator. You should also download the service manual for the engine from the Kohler engine web site.

zuren · #7 11-28-2016, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Mac

Probably wouldn't hurt to take the starter apart and check the brushes and commutator. You should also download the service manual for the engine from the Kohler engine web site.

UPDATE - I took the starter into a different parts store and they were able to test it. It came back as bad. It seems I have a choice to make:

1. Buy a new starter from the parts store - $150
2. Buy a new aftermarket starter online - $64 delivered
3. Fuss around with repairing this starter, only knowing that it weakly spins

Time and energy is in short supply in my house. I'm open to trying to fix the existing starter but only if it doesn't lead me down some rabbit hole that I end up regretting. I have never had a starter apart so how difficult a task is it? Once I understand what I need to do, I'm pretty mechanically inclined but right now I don't know what I don't know. I do know that bolting in a new unit will cost what I quoted above and take all of 5 minutes.

As I mentioned earlier, it looks like the tractor lived outside in the elements, maybe under a tarp or lean-to since 2005. I fear that there is probably internal corrosion/oxidation that is causing my problem. Is this a simple matter of new brushes or could there be a lot more wrong where a new unit is the best approach?

Thanks!

J-Mech · #8 11-28-2016, 11:41 AM

Buy a new one of your choice. I suggest either the correct one from Briggs/Cub Cadet, or the $150 one. Online cheapie are usually that: cheap.

Sam Mac · #9 11-28-2016, 12:26 PM

Lot's of choices here.
https://www.google.com/#q=kohler+25-098-09-S

You tube vid of what a typical starter looks like inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EHQJDhxZc0

ironman · #10 11-28-2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuren

UPDATE - I took the starter into a different parts store and they were able to test it. It came back as bad. It seems I have a choice to make:

1. Buy a new starter from the parts store - $150
2. Buy a new aftermarket starter online - $64 delivered
3. Fuss around with repairing this starter, only knowing that it weakly spins

It might be my lame-o, el-cheap-o way of thinking, but you are the one that said you may keep or sell the tractor. Either way, you don't know what you've got until it runs so why would you spend any more money than you have to. I had a similar situation when I picked up a clunker tractor that had a Kohler with the starter missing. Didn't know if it ran or what. I found a used starter on eBay for about $30 and it all worked out fine (both the starter and the engine). Just my 2 scents!

(or there's this)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-...xYOPDh&vxp=mtr