Problem Starting Engine: Please Help

[eric kancar]

Hello
I have a 1045 LTX that is 3 years old. I was mowing last week for a couple hours without issue. I got off the tractor to open a gate and the tractor just shut off and I couldn't turn it back on. Wasn't clicking or even trying to turn over. Back story: This summer I have had to jump the battery using my car several times despite using a trickle charger. Perhaps the battery is no longer holding a charge.

So after this happened the other day I tried jumping it again and it kept trying to turn over steadily with wheel on top of engine spinning. It never sounded like it was flooding and there was no clicking sound. It only did this if connected to the car. If i tried starting it without the car, it did nothing at all, no clicking, not attempting to turn over. Was as if there was no battery in it at all and wasn't trying to do anything. Hook it back up to the car and it kept trying. Spark plug looked okay. Thought maybe the battery was just too dead to hold a charge. Got a new one and still doing same thing trying to turn over, this time it is doing so without being hooked up to the car.

So obviously the battery is playing a part because with a new battery it is doing what it would do hooked to the car with the old battery but for some reason it just won't turn all the way over.

Any thoughts as to what is going on or where I should be looking/what I should be doing?

Any help is very much appreciated!
thanks
eric

[Leadslingingdaddy]

Solenoid possibly getting weak...
Where are you jumping it?
Did you pull a plug to see if you are getting spark?

[J-Mech]

First of all

Ok. The battery going dead could have played a role in the machine dying. It sounds pretty obvious that a new battery helped. Here are some things to keep in mind

1.) The ignition system is a magneto, so it requires NO VOLTAGE to run. The key grounds it to kill the motor. Along with ANY other safety device. (I.E. brake switch, clutch switch, seat switch.....)
2.) This motor has a fuel shut-off solenoid, called the "afterfire solenoid" in the electrical schematic. This DOES require voltage to work. IF, the battery went dead, and it dropped that solenoid, it would die. ALSO, if that solenoid went bad, it will die and will not restart.
3.) There are like a million safety switches that can kill the motor.

Here is what I suggest:
1.) Disconnect the "kill" wire from the magneto and see if it will start.
If it does: Find the problem in that circuit.
If it does not: Hook it back up, and go to #2
2.) Check to see if the fuel solenoid at the carb is getting power.
If it is: Check to see that the solenoid is working. If you hold your hand on it and turn on the key, you should feel it "click".
2A.) Another way, is to remove it carefully (It will have a spring) take the plunger out, and reinstall it. Then try to start it again. If it runs, the solenoid is bad. Replace it.
If it is not getting power: Test that circuit and find/repair the failure.

Cranking issue:

1.) The motor has a compression release, it may be bad.
2.) Check/ clean all power and ground connections. Make sure specifically, that the ones at the battery, starter solenoid, and starter are good.
3.) It is possible the starter is weak, or you didn't buy a large enough battery. They have a horsepower rating on them usually.

If you try all this, and still have no luck, or have questions, come back and we'll try to help!

[eric kancar]

hey jonathan,
thanks for reply. forgive my ignorance on this stuff...while i understand what you are saying, it is a bit over my head. where is the magneto to find the kill switch i should disconnect? and if that as suggested doesn't work where is the fuel solenoid? can you point me to schematics as the manual does not get this in depth? once i find the solenoid if i hold it and it is clicking that means it is getting power correct?
thank you so MUCH!!!!
eric

[J-Mech]

Ok. Here we go.

Originally Posted by eric kancar

"where is the magneto to find the kill switch i should disconnect?"

The magneto is under the engine cover but there should be a place that it can be disconnected. It is a yellow wire that will run up under the upper shroud, on one side or the other of the motor.... On this model, probably on the right side.

Here is where the magneto is.... It's #16
magneto.jpg

Originally Posted by eric kancar

"and if that as suggested doesn't work where is the fuel solenoid?"

The fuel shut-off solenoid is located on the bottom side of the carburetor bowl. It will have a wire running to it. On this pic, it is not listed separately, but it can be purchased separately from the carb. I circled it in red.
carb.jpg

Originally Posted by eric kancar

"can you point me to schematics as the manual does not get this in depth?"

The schematic can be found here. Right click on the image and tell it to "open in a new window". That will make it large enough to read.

Originally Posted by eric kancar

"once i find the solenoid if i hold it and it is clicking that means it is getting power correct?"

Yes, generally. I have seen them "click" but something in the carb was blocking the fuel flow. Even if it is clicking it is a good idea to pull it. That way you can clean the carb bowl and make sure that there's nothing blocking the jet that the solenoid opens.

You can find all parts pics on Cub Cadets main page, or you can go to partstree.com. I use parts tree because, on my PC, it loads quicker. I don't suggest you buy from there though, because they tend to be a little higher than cadet.

Your welcome! Good luck!

[eric kancar]

Thank you Jonathan for the VERY thoughtful and detailed response! I am going to take a look now and see what I can find out. I'll let you know!
eric

[eric kancar]

Hey Jonathan
Please see the attached photos. I am quite certain I know what the carb solenoid is. Not sure if I felt it clicking. Want to make sure before I pull it off. The magneto to me is not as easy to find. Is it what I am pointing to in the photo? I couldn't find any yellow wire under the upper shroud...
I also attached a shot of the entire right side of the engine in case you need to point me to it.
The other new finding is that this morning when I turn the key to try and get it to start over is that all it is doing is clicking under the seat? Is that the starter? The engine wheel is not spinning anymore when I turn the key like it was previously. I am doing this with the new battery in but the battery light on the dash is lighting up. I hope I didn't kill this new battery in the process of trying to turn this thing over.
Thanks again for all your help!
eric

[J-Mech]

Eric,
You are correct in the pics. Yes, that is the magneto, and the fuel solenoid. The battery light on the dash will be on until the engine is running and the alternator is charging. Before you go too deep, clean the connections first and see if the motor starts cranking better. I'm going to be working but I'll check in every so often and see if you need help.

[eric kancar]

When I pulled them apart they seemed like very clean connections. No rust or dirt or corrosion. With that what next? And why yesterday was the engine wheel spinning when I turned the key and today I only hear the clicking under the seat area when I turn the key (yesterday there was no clicking at all)?
Thank you so much! I am going out for a while so won't be working on this for the rest of the day so dont feel rushed to get back to me. Your advice has been very helpful so far so looking forward to what your thoughts are.
Thanks again!
Eric

[J-Mech]

The clicking you hear is the starter solenoid. It is located under the seat.

I circled the solenoid, and the arrow point to where it is located. You will probably have to remove either the battery, or the fenders to get to it.
solenoid.jpg

You need to check the solenoid for loose wires/ bad connections. They do fail, and usually are a universal type and can be picked up at most parts stores for under $20. Good thing to try as it is a lot cheaper than a starter.

More places to look for bad connections:

*Trace the ground wire from the battery to where it bolts to the frame. Clean this point with sandpaper.
*Check the connections at the solenoid. Look for wires that appear to have been hot. They will be discolored.
*Check the connection at the starter.
#1 Problem with these machines is they really don't have heavy enough wire from : Battery (-) to the frame, and it actually should run to the motor; and from Battery (+) to solenoid, and from solenoid to the starter. I personally think that is why the starters don't seem to last long. However, I am not suggesting you replace them with larger wire, unless they look damaged. But, if replacement is necessary, I would use the next size gauge wire.

It is very possible that the starter is starting to fail. There really isn't a very good test for this. At least not without some special tools.
One thing you can do, as a test for the parts of the system between the battery and starter is to get your jumper cables, hook one end to the cables to the battery, and the other end to the motor like this. (see pic) LISTEN CAREFULLY: Disconnect the battery wires first!! Hook one end of the cables to the battery first, then attach the other end of the Positive jumper cable wire to the post where the RED wire is attached to the starter. MAKE SURE IT IS ONLY TOUCHING THE POST AND NOT THE STARTER BODY! It will SPARK if it touches the body!!! Then, open the jaws of the negative and grab the spot of the motor in the pic. IT WILL START CRANKING! and will continue to until you disconnect. This bypasses all circuits! If the motor cranks fine, you have wiring issues. If it doesn't, you either have a weak battery, or a bad starter. Charge battery and try again. Do this ONLY as a last test before replacing the starter!!

right side of engine.jpg

Some things to be aware of while working on any machine:
*Don't crank the starter for more than about 15-20 seconds.
*Since your starter on this machine is easy to reach, carefully touch it if you have been cranking a while on it. If it gets hot, STOP, and let it cool. You can "burn" it up.
* If the motor doesn't fire after 2 or 3 15 second cranks...... It's probably not going to start. Keep looking for the problem.
*Don't run the engine very long with the top cover off of it. The motor will overheat. 1-2 min is long enough!