ELECTRIC PTO's NOT Lasting on 1500 series

johnh · #1 10-09-2012, 12:26 PM

What gives? Three pto's in 5 years? How can I increase the longevity?

_DX3_ · #2 10-09-2012, 02:39 PM

Are you buying after market or from Cub? When you engage the PTO do you have the engine at mid to lower idle or wide open? Having the engine at wide open when engaging the PTO is very hard on the PTO.

johnh · #3 10-09-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DX3_

Are you buying after market or from Cub? When you engage the PTO do you have the engine at mid to lower idle or wide open? Having the engine at wide open when engaging the PTO is very hard on the PTO.

This last pto had 50 hrs on it

I'll pass that info concearning the lower engagement rpm along to my father. [his machine] As far as OEM pto, the first was replaced by an authorized service center/ dealer under factory warranty. I'm guessing it's under engineered, and also should be made adjustable like the John Deer.

We have a dealer, aways away, who will not stock the Cubs who utilize the electric power take off.

Thanks for the information

Vince_o · #4 10-10-2012, 09:58 PM

Well the aftermarket thing isn't really a factor here. The difference between a rotary PTO and a cub PTO besides the price, is that the cub one is zink coated.

Now I don't know what engine you have on the unit, but if you think about the avg home owner Z turn, when both handles are in reverse, the PTO shuts off. Then when you engage it again, it comes back on. Most riding mowers and even commercial Z turns have the same clutches. Most times if you turn on a a 50 or 60 inch deck at low rpm's, it will shock break the belt. So I'd like to see where in any Warner manual or service bulletin where it says not to engage at full rpm.s.

I know that some years back termite had a problem with the grounds in their tractors. This in turn would warp the cranks on the engines by welding them to the bearings.

There is only a few companies that make the clutches, look on the back of them whether it comes in a cub box or in a Warner box. The pump I just posted about, threw cub was over $900 retail. Through Hydro Gear, same pump, same spec number, just over $500.

You've got something else wrong other than the clutch, the clutch is the end result of the problem.

johnh · #5 10-11-2012, 06:48 PM

Vince,

This is a rear drive mower. Not a zero turn. The PTO I am refering to ONLY drives the mower deck.

Thank you for your input. Every little bit helps.

john

Vince_o · #6 10-12-2012, 07:01 AM

John

Doesn't matter. I was using the fact that a z turn mowers PTO will turn on and off much more than yours will, at high rpm's. So DX3's thinking of low rpm's doesn't seem to make sense to me. If it was going to hurt a PTO to turn it on and off at high speed, they would have designed the unit different. I think you have some type of ground problem. But cant say for sure. I've used after market PTO's with no problems on mowers for years here at the house. At the shop we just use Cub and Warner.

Vince_o · #7 10-12-2012, 08:56 AM

Just thought of another thing. Think about the AC clutch on your car. It inguages and disenguared million times more than your PTO dose. Its not hard on it, and its the same thing. All a pto is is an electal magnet and a coil like on the side of your fly wheel or on the frame if you own an old car. If the coil internally breaks down then you wont have enough amps to pull the plates of the pto in. Also if the batt isnt fully charged that wll cause your pto not to work.

If you have a briggs eng and it has a small charging system, lets say 2 to 4 amps unregulated, it will take for ever for the unit to charge a batt. If its a 15 amp system it will be much faster.

So when your using the pto and its drawing lets say 22 amps, your charging system is just trying to keep the pto enguaged, and if your batt is week then the batt wont get charged.

So this said what exactly is failing on the pto? The coil the enguagement plates or bearring? Its not commen to have a lot of failures on a pto.

Think of all the old QLS that we pull out of the weeds. We get them running and the pto is still working. Ill bet the ptos on them have been enguaged more at high speed than yours has in its whole life. Those types and still today on some AYP units they still use an adjustable clutch. Also on some Kawasaki and Kohlers on comercial z turns.

_DX3_ · #8 10-12-2012, 10:27 AM

I see a theme happening below. These are copied directly from the owner's manuals of cub tractors.

Copied directly from my 1711 owner's manual:

Copied from my 782 and 982 owner's manual:

Vince_o · #9 10-12-2012, 10:40 AM

ANd what part of "BREAK IN dont you understand

So I guess you use the break in oil all season long too

_DX3_ · #10 10-12-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_o

ANd what part of "BREAK IN dont you understand

So I guess you use the break in oil all season long too

To break in the PTO you turn it on and off ten to fifteen time with no load.
After that, during normal use you engage the PTO at half throttle. What part of comprehension do you not understand?