Tiller Stopping

[AaronW]

Hi everybody, got a tiller question:

My tractor is a 125 model, and I've got the tiller for it. Last winter (which only now seems to be over, in Big Sky Country) I rebuilt the front pto clutch. That seems good to go, shuts on and off like it's supposed to, spins free when clutch lever is back, engages when lever is forward.

However, I'm trying to start tilling my garden, and it takes barely any resistance at all, for the the front pulley to stop spinning, so it's almost like resistance is causing the clutch to disengage, or at least act like it.

Here's what I've checked:

-With clutch disengaged, I can spin the tiller tines by hand, and it turns the front pulley. With clutch engaged, I can't turn the tines.

-I've tried messing around with the long belt tension. I reached the point on belt tightness where the problem started getting worse, so it doesn't seem like that belt being too loose is the problem. However, the long belt from the front over the mule drive to the back, is pretty tight, even with the tensioner back all the way out to flush with the tightener nut. Is it possible that something is wonky here, and that I'm getting too much friction to begin with? The belt I'm using came with the tiller.

-I checked belt tightness on the tiller unit itself, seems ok to me, can spin tiller tines pretty easily by hand, with clutch disengaged,by turning that belt.

So that's what I know. Anybody got ideas?

Aaron

Edit: Oh, and I should have mentioned that the ground isn't rock hard or anything. If I lower the tines so I'm only going a few inches into the dirt, it still stops the tines when I start to move forward.

[kalebevans]

Have you tried other implements that use the pto? I wonder if the clutch is just a little out of adjustment and doesn't grab hard enough. When the tiller stops, do you know if the pto is still spinning even though the belt won't move?

[AaronW]

Originally Posted by kalebevans

Have you tried other implements that use the pto? I wonder if the clutch is just a little out of adjustment and doesn't grab hard enough. When the tiller stops, do you know if the pto is still spinning even though the belt won't move?

Well, the housing around that toothed friction plate is still spinning, when the tiller stops, so I'd say yes, on your last question.

If the clutch were a bit out of adjustment, as you said, what adjustment would need to be made? I rebuilt the clutch, as I said, but now that I come to using it, my brain isn't quite registering how it actually works.

I have tried anything else on it, no. I could hook up the mower deck; that uses the front pto, right?

Aaron

[kalebevans]

That toothed housing will spin anytime the engine is running. There are triangle shaped springs in the clutch that put pressure on the toothed clutch material. If they aren't adjusted quite right there won't be enough friction to spin the pulley and keep the belt turning. Do you have an adjuster guide/tool you used to set the tension? I was cheap and didn't buy one my first time around at it took some fiddling to get the tension just right. Not making that mistake again...

[Farmall450]

Do you have an infrared thermometer? You'll find out real quick if the clutch is slipping

[AaronW]

Originally Posted by kalebevans

That toothed housing will spin anytime the engine is running. There are triangle shaped springs in the clutch that put pressure on the toothed clutch material. If they aren't adjusted quite right there won't be enough friction to spin the pulley and keep the belt turning. Do you have an adjuster guide/tool you used to set the tension? I was cheap and didn't buy one my first time around at it took some fiddling to get the tension just right. Not making that mistake again...

On the last reply, no, I haven't got a thermometer, good point.

@ kalebevans: Yes, I did buy the adjuster gauge when I bought the clutch rebuild parts. Boy, were you right about needing some fiddling to that that set right, that took a while, even with the gauge. So hypothetically, even with the gauge, let's say my clutch was out of adjustment. In that case, you'd want to tighten the adjuster bolts a little bit, right? To give the three springs longer travel?

Aaron

[kalebevans]

Sorry, it's been a long time and I'm not certain.

[ironman]

Originally Posted by AaronW

Well, the housing around that toothed friction plate is still spinning, when the tiller stops, so I'd say yes, on your last question.

If the clutch were a bit out of adjustment, as you said, what adjustment would need to be made? I rebuilt the clutch, as I said, but now that I come to using it, my brain isn't quite registering how it actually works.

I have tried anything else on it, no. I could hook up the mower deck; that uses the front pto, right?

Aaron

When everything is adjusted correctly, the toothed friction disc (part #4) is squeezed between the pulley (part #5) and the pressure plate part #3).
When the PTO handle is engaged (forward) and the engine is rotating, 4 rotates with the basket pulley on the crank and drags 3 and 5 along for the ride.
When the PTO handle is dis-engaged (pulled back) the squeeze applied by 3 and 5 is released and 4 floats between them thus 3 and 5 stop rotating. The squeeze is released by means of the three bolts (part #10) being pushed rearward.

Assuming you have it all assembled correctly, the problem you are describing sounds as though the disc is slipping between the pulley and pressure plate.

To adjust it to apply more pressure would require removing the assembly and tightening down on the adjusting nuts (part #13)

[AaronW]

Originally Posted by ironman

When everything is adjusted correctly, the toothed friction disc (part #4) is squeezed between the pulley (part #5) and the pressure plate part #3).
When the PTO handle is engaged (forward) and the engine is rotating, 4 rotates with the basket pulley on the crank and drags 3 and 5 along for the ride.
When the PTO handle is dis-engaged (pulled back) the squeeze applied by 3 and 5 is released and 4 floats between them thus 3 and 5 stop rotating. The squeeze is released by means of the three bolts (part #10) being pushed rearward.

Assuming you have it all assembled correctly, the problem you are describing sounds as though the disc is slipping between the pulley and pressure plate.

To adjust it to apply more pressure would require removing the assembly and tightening down on the adjusting nuts (part #13)

You nailed it. I went out this morning and tightened the bolts a quarter turn. Friction plate still slipped a bit. tightened another quarter, and I was off to the races, tiller runs great. I'm going to get another spring, since I'm past where the depth setting gauge says I should be, so I'm assuming that being over-tightened as it is now, that the spring will wear out sooner that it should. However, I think I understand how this thing works now, and as soon as it quits raining pitchforks and plow handles, I'll go put it to work.

Thanks everybody, and especially for all the detail, Ironman.

Aaron

[ironman]

Originally Posted by AaronW

You nailed it. I went out this morning and tightened the bolts a quarter turn. Friction plate still slipped a bit. tightened another quarter, and I was off to the races, tiller runs great. I'm going to get another spring, since I'm past where the depth setting gauge says I should be, so I'm assuming that being over-tightened as it is now, that the spring will wear out sooner that it should. However, I think I understand how this thing works now, and as soon as it quits raining pitchforks and plow handles, I'll go put it to work.

Thanks everybody, and especially for all the detail, Ironman.

Aaron

Glad it worked out.
Are you aware that there are two different adjustment gauges.