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  #11  
Old 11-24-2015, 10:38 AM
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105_Tom 105_Tom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mech View Post
Ummm....... Why do each of those pistons have a mark on them that looks like the exhaust valve was smacking them?

You sure you have the valve lash set correctly?

You sure that someone didn't plain that head at some point and it's supposed to have a shim, or a thicker head gasket on it?

Just because the glow plugs are getting 12V doesn't mean they work.

If the battery wipes out that fast, you either have a bad battery, or a very junk starter.
So, I did notice the uniform marks on each of the pistons below the exhaust valve, but having never had one of these apart before, I didn't know if it was correct or not. I've seen plenty of pistons where there are castings for the indents of one or all valves, so that's what I was basing my train of thought on. Seeing that's not the case, I did check valve lash this morning. Specs call for .005-.007, 4 of the 6 were north of .030. Notwithstanding the sloppy valve clearance, snugging them up to specs changed nothing. The video link below shows the rocker arm actually lifting off of the head during cranking, so I think I've got more serious issues to deal with here than I initially thought. No doubt the head has been off and possibly cut already. The manual does mention a .007 shim for the head, but I have no experience with head shims, nor did I find one on disassembly. I guess I should pull the head back off and check it for thickness, cause I can only imagine that it's too thin if the pushrods are pushing on the rocker arm like that. I can't see how that's acceptable under normal circumstances and that would also explain why the valve cover nuts will not stay tight.

This is also about the limit of how long I can get the motor to crank over for...
http://vid1067.photobucket.com/album...psweukgec6.mp4

John, what's next for troubleshooting the glow plugs? 15 seconds on the bench made each of them red hot.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:33 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Well Tom, it looks like you have some issues for sure.

I guess I didn't read your first post very well. That engine is too tight. That is why it is cranking so slow. Your going to have to take it out and rebuild it. I totally missed the part where you said it had run out of oil. You should never have attempted to start it without further inspection. Most likely what has happened is that the rod bearing are clear out of it or possibly even rolled to the bottom side. This is allowing them to smack the valves. Now, the pushrods are most likely damaged along with possibly the rocker arms or even the shaft. Good chance the exhaust valves are bent and not seating. I can't see any damage in the pics, or the vid, but that rocker tower shouldn't be moving like that. I bet you will find that the engine turns very hard by hand. The crank would have already been damaged from lack of oil, but is probably worse now that you ran it again. Need to just stop and either rebuild it, or get it rebuilt before more damage is done. Those are not cheap to rebuild. No aftermarket kits available. Main reason it won't start: not cranking fast enough. Sounds like the glow plugs are working.

As a note: The Kubota diesels are a very tight clearance motor. The piston is very close to the valves under normal operation.

Sorry for the bad news.


Note to all:

-Never try to start a motor that locked up from oil starvation. It will just cause more damage.

-There should never be marks on the piston indicating valve contact. A relief is just that. A place that has been "relieved", or cut out, to allow room for a valve. If the top of the piston is flat, there should be no marks on the piston from a valve.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2015, 04:37 PM
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ehh, well, I'll just stop while I'm (somewhat) ahead, then. I can probably get out of it now for what I have into it (except the time). As long as I can break even, it will have been a good learning experience.

Thanks for the insight, John. And Happy Birthday!
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2015, 04:51 PM
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Tom

Just my 2 cents but I'd pull it out and open it up, then you'll know for sure if you should do any more on it or not.
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2015, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 105_Tom View Post
So, I did notice the uniform marks on each of the pistons below the exhaust valve, but having never had one of these apart before, I didn't know if it was correct or not.
Could the cam timing be off?

I'm not sure how the cam is driven? Belt, chain or gears? But if the cam got out of timing with the crank, I think it's possible, that the pistons came in contact with the valves.

If that is the case, you may get away with push rods, valves and get lucky?

I have not read the complete thread. Maybe this was already checked out?
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2015, 05:07 PM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Originally Posted by MWShaw View Post
Could the cam timing be off?

I'm not sure how the cam is driven? Belt, chain or gears? But if the cam got out of timing with the crank, I think it's possible, that the pistons came in contact with the valves.

If that is the case, you may get away with push rods, valves and get lucky?

I have not read the complete thread. Maybe this was already checked out?

Cam is gear timed off the crank. The only way it could be off is if someone had it apart, or if a gear or the cam broke. Not a likely thing.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2015, 06:58 PM
64fleetside 64fleetside is offline
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My buddy has one of those grey-gray-market little blue tractors, Zeter? Satoh? Sushi? looks like a blue & white Kubota copy, has a loader, he can't find shifter cables- it has a nice 3 cyl Chi-bota engine, could one of those be adapted?
Happy Birthday Jon.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2015, 02:28 PM
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I've never claimed to be a mechanic, but even I knew there was something up with the tops of the pistons with the valve marks.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2015, 03:55 PM
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I'm no mechanic either, but if you look at the fist pics of when the pistons were first exposed, the valve marks were present, but just staring to show...as if they happened during the cranking and freeing of the seized engine. Touched for sure, but not too many times.

Then look at the next set, after everything was put together after cleaning up and replacing that stud etc. All of a sudden, the valve marks are now clearly delineated, much more that when first opened up. There is a huge diff in before and after.

I would wonder if whatever caused this (timing perhaps - is this an interference type engine) or (head gasket/spacer incorrectness)...it seems to have happened after the fact.

Something is amiss for sure. But having said that, it cant be too hard to get to the bottom of what happened. When this engine was seized, did some take it apart, F it up, slap it back together because it was out of their league. Then, you bought it, free'd the engine, cranked it and that when the valves touched. This engine sounds to have been messed with. Because it would seem that the valves DID NOT touch the pistons at all before this engine seized.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2015, 05:22 PM
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He said he tightened up the valve clearance, that gives more lift, pushing the valve deeper and closer yet to the piston.

It also had a broken rocker shaft support stud, that was my first clue, something was wrong.

pull the pan and see what is left of the rod bearings, like John, I think the bottom end has real problems.
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