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  #91  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:59 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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Gilles,
It may just be that I am not understand what you are saying due to the language difference, so don't let my response offend you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkull View Post
I hate to be that guy but the way I see it you gone need a tremendous amount of counterweight if you don't install your post at least 6" further and add a rear sub frame. The way it is now all the load is on the front axle since your not in the middle of your wheelbase (22") and you have no sub frame.
Moving the loader post further back does move the center of gravity, and therefore the load distribution, but it doesn't have to be in the center of the tractor to be correct. Most all the load in the bucket will still be on the front axle, and a subframe will not distribute the weight any differently. It just increases the strength of the frame, which I don't believe is really necessary in this case. Moving the loader frame back 6" will only move a few pounds load to the rear axle, because the pivot point of the load is still pretty far ahead of the front axle. Think of it like a teeter totter. The pivot of the teeter totter is the vertical post, and the load is on the front. Moving the pivot point a few inches does shift more load to the rear, but only by a few pounds. Keep in mind also, that as the loader is raised to full height, the pivot point of the teeter totter changes as the load gets closer to the center. It takes far more counter weight to pick the load up off the ground, than it does to hold it at full height.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkull View Post
When you load the front bucket the cylinder push on the post to lift the load and since the front braces maintain the post in place the load is transfer directly to the center beam who push on the rear sub frame until it reach the rear counterweight.

I think 2 simple fact apply here.

1-Less counterweight means less chance to snap a rear axle
2-The further the post are from the front axles the less stress they are exposed.
A subframe will not transfer any load to the counter weight. It only helps act as a frame to tie the machine together. The existing frame can do that. The center beam cannot "push" weight to the subframe and then to the rear counter weight. If you built a subframe with no mounting point forward of the vertical loader post, the same amount of force will still be on the front axle, as it would just as it is. Just like a teeter totter.
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  #92  
Old 01-11-2017, 04:06 AM
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OldSkull OldSkull is offline
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No offence at all Jon, I just can't explain simple law of physic in plain English but your right "pushing" is not the right way to describe what's "Happening" a good way to say it can be "weight transfer" and maybe "tension transfer". The sub frame not only give some strength to the structure, he also help distributed the tension in several points. We are dealing with a very short wheelbase and limited lifting capacity here, you need to keep the front bucket has close as possible to the front end, take PF engineering plan as a example, most guy who build them install their post in the middle of the wheelbase or a bit further behind. Their is a logic explanation to that who can be explain with graphic and physic laws but let just use a good "Rule of thumb".... If the majority do it that way it's because it work!

Good discussion by the way, maybe we getting somewhere with that
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Gilles.
1988 2072 401 54" hyd angled blade
1988 1872 364 snowblower/C50 deck
1976 1650/QA42A blower/44A deck/standby
1976 1450TS/Sleeve hitch/44A deck/in storage
1963 100 (red)/in storage
2010 Kubota 2380-2/42" infinity deck (engine swap)
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  #93  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:24 AM
J-Mech J-Mech is offline
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I do think I understand what you are saying Gilles, but I don't think that having it mounted where it is is an issue. I do agree that the further back you mount the loader, and the closer you put the load to the front, the better it is. That's simple physics. Go to extremes and you see the benefit. If the post was at the extreme rear of the tractor, it would make the need for counter weight basically unnecessary. However, it would take far more pressure to lift the load (on the hydraulic system) given the same basic design. The thing is, added frames and brace work don't change the load point. Maybe we're on the same page and just not communicating well.... Not all loaders vertical mount is in the center of the tractor, and not all loaders have frames to the rear of the tractor.

Take IH's loader model 2350. It uses only the tractors frame, and the vertical post is forward of center. I understand this tractor is much larger, but the principles and physics are the same. It's just a larger scale.

2350.jpg
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  #94  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:00 PM
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Physics law are the same but we dealing with a different requirement and of course a frame with very short wheelbase and rigidity. I still holding my ground about the sub frame and center post position on a GT but even if we disagree I'm not questioning your statement Jon.

You can download a "Boring" document (.PDF) from this link, I like to think he can help anyone interested in the conception of a FL or at least have future plan to build one but honestly it's pretty rocket scientist stuff....LMAO

http://www.nacomm03.ammindia.org/Articles/Rat007.pdf
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1988 2072 401 54" hyd angled blade
1988 1872 364 snowblower/C50 deck
1976 1650/QA42A blower/44A deck/standby
1976 1450TS/Sleeve hitch/44A deck/in storage
1963 100 (red)/in storage
2010 Kubota 2380-2/42" infinity deck (engine swap)
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