129 Front PTO, follow up, and new problem

boxccc · #1 07-28-2018, 09:55 PM

As you may note I finally corrected the front PTO clutch problem but then I noted the fuel tank was badly rusted and the carb was really dirty. I had a spare parts 124 and the tank was almost spotless and I connected a new drip bowl and used a new-ish carb from the 124. I also got a new battery but then the fun begins. The engine will turn over but not start until I boost the new battery with 55amp from my Sears battery charger. It cranks fast enough and starts immediately. and runs without difficulty. I noted before that if the PTO had not disengaged it was too much of a drag on the cranking amps and could not fire. If I turned the engine off out in the field after a good warm up, the new battery could not crank sufficient to start the engine up. I always need the 55amp to get it going again and the PTO is disengaged.

Any suggestions of thoughts.
Thank You

J-Mech · #2 07-28-2018, 09:58 PM

What size battery did you get??

boxccc · #3 07-29-2018, 02:30 AM

12 volt standard garden tractor size. The battery compartment will not take a larger auto or truck battery. It is from a reputable battery company that has several branches here in NW Ohio and SE Michigan. I don't have its cold cranking amps at the moment.

J-Mech · #4 07-29-2018, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxccc

12 volt standard garden tractor size. The battery compartment will not take a larger auto or truck battery. It is from a reputable battery company that has several branches here in NW Ohio and SE Michigan. I don't have its cold cranking amps at the moment.

Not to be a smart ass or anything..... but I have over 17,000 posts on this site. I'm pretty aware of the physical size of the battery box, and the size of a L/G battery that fits in the box.... I want to know the cranking amps. I know there are different battery manufacturers too. So cranking amps vary, but there are at least 3 different CCA batteries in the brand I buy. Maybe you got a very small one. Go get the CCA's and post that. I use one with about 350 CCA's in all my tractors. You need to be up in the 280-300 range to get a good one.

sawdustdad · #5 07-29-2018, 10:20 AM

As for the new battery not cranking fast enough, I'd suspect either a faulty battery or poor battery connections. I'd go back and clean the battery terminals and connections real well, and try that. Make sure the battery is charged. When you put the booster on it, you, to some extent, bypass the harness to battery post connection. If it still won't crank after you've cleaned the terminal connections on a charged battery, go get another battery, that one has a problem.

With all the batteries I've bought, (dozens) I generally buy whatever they have on hand, sometimes at Walmart's "sale" display, sometimes at the local NAPA. They all start the tractors easily regardless of CCA. The difference between them is longevity. Cheaper batteries seem to only last 3-4 years while the better ones last 5-6 years.

J-Mech · #6 07-29-2018, 12:02 PM

Frank, I disagree about the battery amp size. The bigger CCA batteries crank faster/better. I agree the bigger ones last longer.... because you aren't using them to the max.... but they are larger amp batteries. It matters. I also totally agree about cleaning connections, or just getting a bad battery. It happens.

cooperino · #7 07-29-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxccc

I noted before that if the PTO had not disengaged it was too much of a drag on the cranking amps and could not fire.

Any suggestions of thoughts.
Thank You

Previously to fixing the PTO. Were you hooking up a charger to get it going with the PTO engaged? If you did this for a prolonged period there is a chance the extra load on the starter did some damage internally to the starter. Perhaps now you need the added amperage because the starter was compromised. Just a thought.
Continually cranking a starter with a weak battery can also take a toll on a starter.

boxccc · #8 07-29-2018, 09:25 PM

Battery is a Deka with 340 cold crank amps. I got 2 battery's the same day and tried each one with the same result. The new battery terminals were spotless but on advise wire brused them . The battery cables ere also cleaned. Following the rule of my battery supplier, the battery's were charged for 3 hours at 10 to 12.5 amps.

I did not try to be snide about the size of the battery box but you asked and we both know full well only the garden size will properly fit.
thank You

Alvy · #9 07-29-2018, 10:03 PM

A couple things/questions come to mind. Number one there are different CCA rated batteries for the box that you have but 340 is more than enough.

With a voltmeter can you tell us what the battery is dropping to under load while starting on its own? Or do you possibly have access to a battery load tester?

Can you describe how it cranks without the jump pack? Does it get to a certain point in the revolution and then slow dramatically or stop for a moment? This is a compression release engine and those symptoms could indicate an issue there.

Also static timing the engine, adjusting valves, etc. helps a lot with cranking speed. Maybe try to post a video for us to see how slow it is to crank without the jump pack, this will help narrow it down more because the description of the problem is a little vague.

List can go on and on from excess volt drop across the starter solenoid to faulty starter generator internals, pto out of adjustment still, etc.

sawdustdad · #10 07-29-2018, 10:26 PM

Besides the battery terminals, I'd also make sure your starter's ground cable is clean and making good connection to the chassis at the front of the frame, near the starter, and the ground at the battery is making good connection there, too. I've even run the negative cable from the battery all the way to the starter and grounded it at that point.