Question on undersized rods

[MikeMasheris]

I have had that done also use .020 crank and inserts have Babbit to run on

[J-Mech]

Effingham Regrind has the bearings and can do the rod. It's about the same price as a new rod to put a bearing in, maybe just a bit more.

Keep in mind you can only turn that crank .020" undersized before it's junk. No, the crank cannot be welded up.

[sawdustdad]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Effingham Regrind has the bearings and can do the rod. It's about the same price as a new rod to put a bearing in, maybe just a bit more.

Keep in mind you can only turn that crank .020" undersized before it's junk. No, the crank cannot be welded up.

Not recommended to go more than .020" under or it gets too weak? Or some other reason? Just curious.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

Not recommended to go more than .020" under or it gets too weak? Or some other reason? Just curious.

Kohler spec says that's it (.020" undersized). Anything less and the crank gets weak. You can't weld the crank up and remachine because it's a hollow journal. It weakens it and it will break.

[dodge trucker]

what about thickness of case hardening on the journal?
On the other site that I found a discussion of doing inserts and in research on Ebay and other places (once I got an actual part number) bearings for the original application go all the way to 60-under.... *(not at all saying it would be OK to take one that thin on this application by mentioning that)
On that other site I was linked to Vogel which I think, is also in Effingham? anyone ever deal with them?
funny-- I was linked there as a source for the inserts themselves, they are out of stock on them.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

what about thickness of case hardening on the journal?
On the other site that I found a discussion of doing inserts and in research on Ebay and other places (once I got an actual part number) bearings for the original application go all the way to 60-under.... *(not at all saying it would be OK to take one that thin on this application by mentioning that)
On that other site I was linked to Vogel which I think, is also in Effingham? anyone ever deal with them?
funny-- I was linked there as a source for the inserts themselves, they are out of stock on them.

I don't know where you are finding .060" undersize rods or bearings for the K series. Vogel only offers standard, .010" and .020" undersize bearings. There are not bearings for the "original" application, as the rod is the bearing. Vogel's site shows all the bearings to be in stock. Did you call them?

Keep in mind, that there are billet cranks out there for the K series in the pulling world. You can likely turn them down a lot farther.

I know Vogel, but only by association. Effingham Regrind does a lot of business with them. I deal with Dean at regrind, and if I need anything, he just gets it from them. I haven't bought off them directly. I do know old man Vogel is really something. I have met him. He was in regrind one day when I was there. Deal with his boy if you call them.

[sawdustdad]

I had no idea the crank journal was hollow. Interesting. Learn something every time I log on here.

[dodge trucker]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

I don't know where you are finding .060" undersize rods or bearings for the K series. Vogel only offers standard, .010" and .020" undersize bearings. There are not bearings for the "original" application, as the rod is the bearing. Vogel's site shows all the bearings to be in stock. Did you call them?

Keep in mind, that there are billet cranks out there for the K series in the pulling world. You can likely turn them down a lot farther.

I know Vogel, but only by association. Effingham Regrind does a lot of business with them. I deal with Dean at regrind, and if I need anything, he just gets it from them. I haven't bought off them directly. I do know old man Vogel is really something. I have met him. He was in regrind one day when I was there. Deal with his boy if you call them.

I found the 0.040 and 0.060 on Ebay, under the original application for this particular set of rod beating inserts, an N62 Continental engine. and by word of the machine shop that has my block and crank, he mentioned 0.040, I tripped on 0.060 by accident via Ebay.
On the YT forum I was tipped of a place in the suburbs of Chicago (Buffalo Grove I believe it was) that deals with all sorts of obsolete Continental engine parts.... name of the place was Monte's. I wound up getting mine from some guy via Ebay out of VA.

thanks for the info on your machine shop source.

not looking to build a puller, just to salvage the parts of this engine that I have, no more/no less....it will be a worker again, like it always has been since it was new.
I just looked into this subject looking for a better alternative to an "imported" 20-under rod, to match the machine work that my crank needs.
also don't want to buy an unknown used one from say Feebay and then it not be as advertised... this way I KNOW what I have, both in condition and that the PTO end will match what I need.

and yeah I agree 20-under is probably about it for these, if you want the job to last. I know with car engines many don't like going more than 30-under though I have seen 40-under parts available listed in various catalogs for "some applications" I think I'd be trading my core in for a crank kit even on a car/truck if I had to go to 40-under.....

I do not remember ever seeing anything in print on what Kohler says is acceptable, just read into the fact that kohler never offered more than a std or a 10-under, has to mean something about limitations to what extent a crank can be saved....

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

I had no idea the crank journal was hollow. Interesting. Learn something every time I log on here.

Really? Next time you overhaul an engine look. You can see through it.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

I found the 0.040 and 0.060 on Ebay, under the original application for this particular set of rod beating inserts, an N62 Continental engine. and by word of the machine shop that has my block and crank, he mentioned 0.040, I tripped on 0.060 by accident via Ebay.

Oh, ok the original application for the bearing... You're not talking Kohler. Yes, it's a Continental rod bearing. I knew that. Just for the record, VM makes his own, and offers a "branded" one both.

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

thanks for the info on your machine shop source.

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

I just looked into this subject looking for a better alternative to an "imported" 20-under rod, to match the machine work that my crank needs.
also don't want to buy an unknown used one from say Feebay and then it not be as advertised... this way I KNOW what I have, both in condition and that the PTO end will match what I need.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish.... .020" under rods are readily available. I don't have any issue getting them. I don't do that insert as of yet. Cheaper to get a new rod. You'll find out. Don't ever buy a used rod unless you plan to put a bearing in it. Most people want too much for a used rod anyway.

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

and yeah I agree 20-under is probably about it for these, if you want the job to last. I know with car engines many don't like going more than 30-under though I have seen 40-under parts available listed in various catalogs for "some applications" I think I'd be trading my core in for a crank kit even on a car/truck if I had to go to 40-under.....

Not to be rude, but it wasn't a debate, or a statement of opinion. .020" under is all you can turn the crank on a K series. That's it. Unless you have an inexperienced crank grinder, the machine shop won't do it.

I've put .060" under rod bearings in before. Depends on application, and size of the journal. On a 3" bearing journal, .060" isn't all that much. Shoot, in the old Fairbanks Morse engine 118ci and 208ci's we used to put like .100" under rod bearings in them. You even shimmed the rod. Those engines are something.

Originally Posted by dodge trucker

I do not remember ever seeing anything in print on what Kohler says is acceptable, just read into the fact that kohler never offered more than a std or a 10-under, has to mean something about limitations to what extent a crank can be saved....

You won't see anything in print unless you have access to AERA crank grinding info, or Kohler crank info. It's not in the service manual. Yes, to my knowledge, Kohler only ever offered a .010" under rod. If they ever offered a .020" under, I can't find it.