Buying a 1450, what to look for

[twoton]

PTO switch off?

Check out the wiring diagram that Roland put together for us in the Tech section under tractors;

http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/s...hp?p=22#post22

[sawdustdad]

Originally Posted by Slycox

Figure I'll post what here what I have found so far.

Went out and started looking at it. Turning the key nothing happens, no click nothing.

The starter turns over when 12v is applied, I haven't found the solenoid yet but I haven't dug to far yet.

I have read up on testing the coil and will be doing that once I get some time. As of right now that is where I am at. Any thoughts from the experts?

One other thing that I haven't search yet is it appears that there is constant power even with the key out. No change in volt meter and the lights come on. Is this normal?

With what I was told I'm leaning toward coil, but with the constant power etc wondering if maybe it could be ignition switch?

Forget about the coil for a while. Thats a low probability failure mode.

Does the tractor turn over with a set of jumper cables on the battery? If so, go back to my step by step instructions and follow them, 1,2,3, etc. If you don't have a carb kit, just take it off, take it apart and clean it good, then put it back together with existing gaskets. That's good enough to get it running. You don't NEED a kit. (buy them online, I use ccspecialties.org) but there are others.

Charge or replace the battery. If it still will not crank over using the ignition switch with a new battery, then the next things to cause failure to crank will be the safety switches on the clutch/brake and be sure the PTO is "off." Find the clutch/brake switch underneath and jumper it or test it for continuity. It either needs to be bypassed or operable to get the starter to crank.

If you bypass the safety switch and it still won't crank, but will when the starter is jumped directly, then suspect the solenoid. It's under the dash. Remove the fuel tank to reach it.

Use a large screwdriver to jump (short out) the two large screws on the top of the relay/solenoid. ("sparks is good") The engine should crank regardless of safety switches. But it won't run unless the ignition is on and safety switches are operable or bypassed.

As for constant power to lights, I've seen tractors wired both ways, lights always live, and lights only when ignition is turned on.

Ignition switch failure is another low probability event but you can check it quickly...

If the ignition switch is "always on" you'll run the battery down rather quickly through the coil, which will get pretty warm. if the battery is holding a charge, then that is not happening, so I would just say your tractor is wired with the lights live at all times. No big deal. You can check the switch by checking voltage from the + terminal to a ground with the switch in "off" and again in "run." Should be +12V with the switch in "run" but zero volts with it off.

Be sure your volt meter is set to DC volts and not AC volts when you use it.

Again, not a likely failure, so go back to the instructions

[Slycox]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

Forget about the coil for a while. Thats a low probability failure mode.

Does the tractor turn over with a set of jumper cables on the battery? If so, go back to my step by step instructions and follow them, 1,2,3, etc. If you don't have a carb kit, just take it off, take it apart and clean it good, then put it back together with existing gaskets. That's good enough to get it running. You don't NEED a kit. (buy them online, I use ccspecialties.org) but there are others.

Charge or replace the battery. If it still will not crank over using the ignition switch with a new battery, then the next things to cause failure to crank will be the safety switches on the clutch/brake and be sure the PTO is "off." Find the clutch/brake switch underneath and jumper it or test it for continuity. It either needs to be bypassed or operable to get the starter to crank.

If you bypass the safety switch and it still won't crank, but will when the starter is jumped directly, then suspect the solenoid. It's under the dash. Remove the fuel tank to reach it.

Use a large screwdriver to jump (short out) the two large screws on the top of the relay/solenoid. ("sparks is good") The engine should crank regardless of safety switches. But it won't run unless the ignition is on and safety switches are operable or bypassed.

As for constant power to lights, I've seen tractors wired both ways, lights always live, and lights only when ignition is turned on.

Ignition switch failure is another low probability event but you can check it quickly...

If the ignition switch is "always on" you'll run the battery down rather quickly through the coil, which will get pretty warm. if the battery is holding a charge, then that is not happening, so I would just say your tractor is wired with the lights live at all times. No big deal. You can check the switch by checking voltage from the + terminal to a ground with the switch in "off" and again in "run." Should be +12V with the switch in "run" but zero volts with it off.

Be sure your volt meter is set to DC volts and not AC volts when you use it.

Again, not a likely failure, so go back to the instructions

Thanks for the detailed description. It would not crank with my charger in jump mode. I will work on testing/bypassing the switches when I get out there.

[twoton]

Like sawdustdad said, the solenoid is behind the dash, in the tower. I can usually reach them just by removing the rear hood support, 1/2" combination wrench. (yup, I changed it cause I was WRONG!)

[Slycox]

Originally Posted by twoton

Like sawdustdad said, the solenoid is behind the dash, in the tower. I can usually reach them just by removing the rear hood support, 9/16" combination wrench.

Thanks, I'll run through this as I get time hopefully tomorrow since I am off.

[twoton]

You have a test light and or a meter?

[Slycox]

Originally Posted by twoton

You have a test light and or a meter?

Both. If I know how to use them, that is the real question...

[twoton]

The test light is easy. Connect the leads and either it lights up,.. or it don’t. The one I have I made from a tail light bulb socket out of one of my old Ford trucks, soldered some wire onto each of the leads and added a couple of alligator clips.

If you can get to the solenoid, (starter relay, (electrically actuated electric switch)), use your test light for the first few tests. Looking at the wiring diagram, you can see that the solenoid has three terminals (actually 4 as the mounting base is a terminal, but.. three terminals on top) two big fat ones and one small one. Find the one that has the cable that goes to the positive terminal on your battery, B+. Connect one lead on your test light to a known good ground (negative terminal of your battery, B-). Now, with the other lead on your test light, touch the fat terminal (the one with the cable from the battery). Does it illuminate? If yes, you now know that you have continuity through that cable ( the ability of current to flow from one point to another). Maybe not enough to crank the starter due to corrosion, but we can save that for later.

Again, looking at the wiring diagram, you can see that from the ‘s’ terminal on the ignition switch, current flows through the PTO switch, through the neutral safety switch and to the small terminal on the solenoid and returns to the battery through ground. Remember, no ground, no flow. So, connect one lead on your test light to the small terminal on the solenoid and the other test light lead to a known good ground (negative terminal on the battery, B-) and try and crank the engine with the key. Does your test light illuminate? If so, you have just confirmed the proper operation of the start circuit of the keyed ignition switch,… that current is flowing as it should for the start circuit through the PTO switch,…and the neutral safety switch. All with one test.

If the test light does illuminate, time for the next test. Leave the test lead on the small terminal. Remove the test light lead from the known good ground and touch it to the metal surface near where the solenoid mounts to the tractor. Not to the solenoid mounting base itself but near it (you may have to scratch the surface a bit with your test lead to get some good contact). Now try and crank the engine with the key. Does the light illuminate? If so,.. you have just confirmed that the 4th terminal, the solenoid mounting base, has continuity with the tractor frame.

OK, next test. With one test light lead to B-, attach the other test light lead to the other big fat terminal on the solenoid, the one that has a cable that goes to the starter. With the key off, the light should be out right now. Once again, try and crank the engine with the keyed switch. Does the light illuminate? If yes,.. you have just confirmed that the solenoid is functioning as it should.

Now move the test light lead that you had on the fat terminal to the terminal on the starter. The other test light lead is still on B-. Crank with the key. Light on? Cable’s good, but like I said before, maybe not good enough to allow enough amperage through to turn the starter over.


If your test light does not illuminate on any of these tests, then you will have to back up through the circuit and begin cleaning, inspecting and testing individual components (which means more tractor disassembly).


Sorry that's all I got for now, got to get going.

Good luck.

[Slycox]

twoton , thanks for breaking it down barney style for me. You cleared up a few of the questions I had.

I got to the solenoid and had power to it but no power anywhere else. I was able to jump across the points and it would turn over. Since i was getting no power to the safety switch lug i figured it might be a bad connection there. I started tracing the wires everything looked as good as the next. Checked the fuses again just in case. After that it now cranks off the key, all the lugs light up when the key is turned. My assumption is a bad connection in one of the fuse holders since both are good. Just happened to get it this last time.

Now to go through sawdustdad's list and get that done. Hopefuly good news soon.

Thanks again for the help folks.

[Slycox]

So no spark. Cleaned the points. Getting power to positive side of coil ~12.4v. Ohm reading from positive to post ~8 no reading from negative to positive.