Need advice for a Johnson Loader on a 982

[J-Mech]

I get what your saying. But a power beyond for hydraulic attachments is just that. It's not a PTO (Power Take Off). When you said that, I thought you were implying it had a pump running off a PTO. I agree, it is attached the way you say.... which we had already figured out earlier in the thread.

[mjsoldcub]

thats a pto on a hydraulic colt/case/ingersoll tractor though....not a spinning shaft...thats all i was saying, and last i checked my 220 ran like 1700psi or so...hard to remember...maybe the remotes on a cub would be enough to run it, but i think youll need to add a reservoir...some loaders have it built in the uprights and such but i dont see a vent on it anywhere.... i think a front mounted pump done PROPERLY would be your best bet....personally....but im dumb as shit.....

[olds45512]

Originally Posted by mjsoldcub

....but im dumb as shit.....

[mjsoldcub]

just to clarify... this is a POWER TAKE OFF for a hydraulic driven tractor, (not hydrostatic)...and they use motor oil also instead of hydraulic fluid.....i run 15-40 rotella, but others including the guy with the loader might run something different which means thats whats in the loader cylinders... the pressure relief valve on the big wheel cases is set at 2100 psi and a good operating range of 1000-1800psi...its hydraulic power from pump either on or off...not exactly like a typical spool valve...so, this will be interesting...would be way cool to see it on a 982, but its a good thing you know the guy..that case is a beast though, as long as the bolts inside the rear arent backing out....good luck either way, im excited to see how you do this...

mikej

[J-Mech]

I really don't want to get hung up on this....
I understand that Case uses the power beyond as a means to power implements, but it is not a PTO. It's a simple misunderstanding of true terms.


By definition:

PTO:
Most commonly, it is a system comprising a splined output shaft on a tractor or truck, designed so that a PTO shaft, a kind of drive shaft, can be easily connected and disconnected, and a corresponding input shaft on the application end. The power take-off allows implements to draw energy from the engine.

It is a shaft. Not hydraulics.


Power beyond hydraulics:
Power beyond - also called high-pressure carry over (HPCO), is a facility on a mobile hydraulic directional control valve that enables the pressure gallery to be isolated from the tank gallery and be carried over to an additional valve - usually another directional control valve.

Or in this set up, instead of a valve, a hydraulic motor that power equipment. But as you can see, that can also be used to power another valve like the valve on a loader.


The charge pump on a 982 should be running at around 900PSI give or take. You can easily bump that up to 1000/1100# pounds with no ill effects. Or as mentioned, you can mount a front pump. That will also work just fine. Just be sure that the existing directional valve on the loader has a system relief valve built in.

[mjsoldcub]

i agree but i didnt mix up the true terms...JI case did...hydraulic pump on the back of the motor to a tcv valve, to a hydraulic motor on the rearend for directional power....so i can see why they call it a pto...mowers, blowers tillers, 3pts etc...only way to power some of them, (of course there was a front pto also for belts and such on the non fully hydro tractors... like a skid loader, that technology was actually invented by the colt brothers, (Brew city) WI, and later bought out by case and built in winneconne.... i think bolens invented the hydrostatic trans, but i could be wrong...either way will be a cool loader tractor....i thought the cubs maxed out at 600 or so psi??? spring and cone change???


and if thats the case by definition then why do we call the front clutch and pulley a pto if there is no splined shaft or ability to input another shaft????? hhhmmmmm.....just wondering

im not trying to get hung up on it either, or be an ass....but if you own a ji case GT (and i do) its a f***ing rear pto...

[J-Mech]

The GT's pressure was about 600# but the SGT's was 900#. All of the hydro's are the same, so pressure can be adjusted. You adjust it by adding (or subtracting) shims on the relief valve spring. No change in spring or cone necessary.

The reason the front pulley is called a PTO is because it's mounted to a keyed shaft, which by design was intended to power whatever the engine buyer chose. So it is a shaft, but with a clutched pulley mounted for belt use.

Sundstrand designed the unit used for hydrostatic transmissions. It was actually installed and tested in a Cub Cadet. It became the model 123, the first hydrostatic garden tractor. All other manufacturers followed suite, most using the same Sundstrand model U15 hydrostatic unit.


FWIW, lots of things manufactured have been labeled wrong over the years. This Case PTO thing, what IH called a "3pt hitch" on a Cadet is really a sleeve hitch. Dodge used to put a tin on top of the valve covers on the Cummins engine that said "Intercooled". It wasn't. It was air to air aftercooled. Big difference.

[Cub Cadet 123]

Originally Posted by mjsoldcub

just to clarify......so, this will be interesting...would be way cool to see it on a 982, but its a good thing you know the guy..that case is a beast though, as long as the bolts inside the rear arent backing out....good luck either way, im excited to see how you do this...

mikej

I agree Mike.....It will be interesting!! Fellas, please keep any terminology egos in check, I'm learning a lot and that is the very reason why I posted this thread. I am benefiting from your discussions and really need to know information. Everyone has been civil about it and the differences in terminology and ideas actually benefit those of us, like myself, who do not know about these things. I think sometimes we feel like someone else is stepping on our toes when their ideas differ from ours or they disagree, but this is how the guys who do not understand things learn. So, keep on discussing and disagreeing in a civil manner, because that makes our forum a really great source for others to learn!!! This is my first super GT and my first loader, so naturally I am both excited and ignorant of how things will come together, so also keep in mind that your patience with my learning is necessary in order for me to benefit from both your knowledge and experience. Thanks for helping me so much with this matter.......well, back to work for me.

With much appreciation,

Cub Cadet 123

[Oak]

Fab you up one of these, run it off the rear of the hydro and use the transmission for the sump. Of course that's if you don't have rear pto.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...9706_200329706

[mjsoldcub]

cub 123 are you planning on mowing with this tractor??? are you sure there is no potential for a resiovoir on the loader??? it doesnt look like it but you would know??? (me) personally would like to just hit a switch and have all the fluid and hydraulic power you need for the loader, seperate, without taking from one of the main functions of the tractor,( the hydro)...as it will be hard enough on it when you really get to using that loader, trust me...you wont mean to be beating on it but it will be beating on it.. i mean what if you wanted to use the loader and have the remotes still available for some reason??? would there be enough capacity?? i dont know...
use an old mule drive,mount the pump to it, it will be nice and tucked up there, removable and doesnt have to run all the time, just using the electric pto on your tractor... short belt, in and out to the spool valve on the loader, well via whatever the resiovior turns out to be is... shit maybe a detachable weight box on the rear???? or see if you can use the loader frame??? wish i could post pictures of the loader i did for my dads NAA jubee.. its really nice power everything, own pump and all fluid is contained in the loader....

good luck...im excited for you...ill be putting one on a '48 8n with sherman trans here soon...sucks no live hydraulics on it, (pto has to be spinning) though so again thats why im a fan of seperate systems...