Fall overseeding

[titleist1]

Regarding the freezing the seed theory, I had about 1/3 bag left over from last year that wintered in our detached garage so it definitely went through a couple freeze cycles this winter.

I don't know if it germinated faster since I didn't have a non frozen seed section to compare it to, but it certainly grew when I planted it this spring.

[yeeter]

Im going to do this just to see the look on my wifes face (and if I time it right, her family visiting at xmas).....

[Maxwelhse]

Do it dressed for summer and make them think you've totally lost your mind!

[j4c11]

So I've decided to take the scientific approach and test out the idea I've heard that freezing the seed before planting it yields higher and faster germination rates. I grabbed a couple of plastic containers, some potting soil and some leftover Rebel tall fescue seed from last year , and planted one sample as is, for the second sample I took the seed and placed it in the freezer for about 4 hours before planting. Both samples used the same seed, same soil, same watering schedule. The results after 7 days were significant enough to share.

The container on the right contains the frozen seed. So far nothing. I intend to repeat in case I messed something up, but I'm really surprised that it made this much difference. If the result repeats in the second test, it may be safe to say that seeding should be done either in the fall or the spring, but not in the winter.

[J-Mech]

Personally, I think you botched your test. The purpose of letting the seed freeze over winter is to let it go dormant. Putting it in the freezer for 4 hours basically just froze it, not made it go dormant. Probably killed the germ.

Repeat the test, only this time, put it in the fridge for about a week. Then move it to the freezer for about 2 months, then back to the fridge for at least a week, then to the ambient air for a week or so, then plant. That will come closer to duplicating winter.

Think about it, if you went out in the yard and pulled a plug of grass and put it in the deep freeze, I'm gonna say it would just die. No time for the plant to go dormant. No offense, but sounds to me like you make a better computer guy than a farmer LOL.

I want to add also, that in the case of rye and winter wheat (both plants in the grass family) you actually plant in the fall so the seed germinates, then it starts growing in the spring. In CAD's example, he puts the seed out on top of snow. Snow melts, seed embeds in the soil and grows when it gets warm. Optimal start time for growth is when it warms up in the spring, and before it's dry enough to plant. I can go on about the other reasons for success rate, but the big thing here is I think you killed the germ on your seed by just taking it from a warm environment to a below freezing one without time for the seed to go dormant.

[j4c11]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Personally, I think you botched your test. The purpose of letting the seed freeze over winter is to let it go dormant. Putting it in the freezer for 4 hours basically just froze it, not made it go dormant. Probably killed the germ.

Repeat the test, only this time, put it in the fridge for about a week. Then move it to the freezer for about 2 months, then back to the fridge for at least a week, then to the ambient air for a week or so, then plant. That will come closer to duplicating winter.

Think about it, if you went out in the yard and pulled a plug of grass and put it in the deep freeze, I'm gonna say it would just die. No time for the plant to go dormant. No offense, but sounds to me like you make a better computer guy than a farmer LOL.

It really wasn't about testing whether seed that naturally freezes over fall/winter germinates, it was more about testing the theory that's all over the internet that placing the seed in the freezer overnight before seeding speeds up germination. But it may also say something about taking seed and throwing it on the ground directly in sub-freezing temperatures.

[j4c11]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

I want to add also, that in the case of rye and winter wheat (both plants in the grass family) you actually plant in the fall so the seed germinates, then it starts growing in the spring. In CAD's example, he puts the seed out on top of snow. Snow melts, seed embeds in the soil and grows when it gets warm. Optimal start time for growth is when it warms up in the spring, and before it's dry enough to plant. I can go on about the other reasons for success rate, but the big thing here is I think you killed the germ on your seed by just taking it from a warm environment to a below freezing one without time for the seed to go dormant.

Just wanted to clarify a little bit of the pseudo-science:

- Seed dormancy refers to the ability of a seed to not germinate under ideal conditions when it should germinate, e.g. plenty of water, nutrients and warmth. This is often achieved through physical barriers on the seed, like coatings, or hormones/chemicals. The seed not germinating under non-ideal conditions e.g. too cold,not enough water is called quiescence.
- Quiescent seed will resume growth at any time if the conditions are right, whereas dormant seeds require some sort of "special event" to germinate.
- Tall fescue seed, unless treated is not a dormant seed, and does not "go dormant".
- The processes which govern plant dormancy have nothing to do with seed dormancy. Which is why putting grass in the freezer has nothing to do with freezing seed. Which is also why winter wheat that germinates in the fall also has nothing to do with seed quiescence in the winter.

Having said that,I don't see how taking grass seed out of the bag and seeding it on top of snow (which is frozen water and will cause the seed to freeze) is different from putting it in the freezer. That is, it should freeze and germinate eventually when the conditions are right, either 4 hours later or 3 months later. The fact that nothing came up was a huge surprise to me. At this point though I agree that the experiment is flawed, but for reasons other than the ones you mentioned. I believe that since it was frozen, the seed will take a few extra days to thaw out and reach optimum temperature, whereas the seed that was not frozen was at the right temperature to begin with. If this is correct, the grass should begin to germinate in the next few days. I will try the experiment again, but I will allow the frozen seed to fully thaw out and then plant both batches to see if there's any difference in germination speed. I suspect there shouldn't be.

[J-Mech]

jc, your an interesting man. I think, however, you rely too much on your pc and the internet, whereas I am speaking from years of experience farming and planting yards for people. I'll watch your test though, I am intrigued.....

[j4c11]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

jc, your an interesting man. I think, however, you rely too much on your pc and the internet, whereas I am speaking from years of experience farming and planting yards for people. I'll watch your test though, I am intrigued.....

Thanks...I guess . You're definitely right about relying too much on the internet thought .

In the meanwhile, a picture of sample #4, which aims to test the theory which says that seed that is not covered by dirt is wasted and will not germinate. Seed was planted on top of well packed soil. Although germination rate was somewhat lower than the seed that was covered by dirt, it was still fairly good.

[j4c11]

My grass seed experiments have got me thinking, it seems kind of silly to spread a whole bunch of seed over a large area and then attempt to keep the whole area moist for 7-14 days so the seed can germinate. Seems there's a 5-6 day period when the seed does not really attach to the soil,it just sits there, so I'm wondering if it would be possible to spread the seed out on a tray or something and water it for 5-6 days, and just before it produces roots or whatever spread it on the ground. This would cut down on a lot of watering and increase your chances of success...I would think. I have already determined that the seed does not need to be covered to germinate, it just needs water. I'm going to spread a bunch of leftover seed on a tray and try it.