Hydrogen Generator for Cub Cadet

[RPalmer]

I just realized I made my post after reading the first page and did not see page two! Duhhhh.

[Eagle Keeper]

I guess this guy is gone. Couldn't take the logic...

[B1jetmech]

I'll chime in.

I have been messing around with different hydrogen generators this last year. Had great results from some while others didn't work. Now I found a good viable design.

As for distilled water...NO is doesn't conduct electricity but add some Potassium hydroxide(KOH) and you will see a world of difference.

WARNING! KOH is dangerous to handle take precaution!

I built a mini generator that I wish to install on my Cub.

Here is a pic.





I haven't had a chance to install it yet because I am working on bigger designs but am curious how the Kohler will run with a good boost.

Chase

[clint]

It's just not a boost, for this to work the entire platform would have to be designed for the mean datum point of hydrogen being used all the time, this would mean a electrical system from wiring to charging capacity incorporated into the the design of the engine, and then you must take into account compression ratios, timing, material being used in valves, pistons, and if you get more power that means all things transmitting that power will need to be designed for this.

Now back to the point, anytime you convert energy you loose energy, it's a fact that can not be ignored, if your converting "water" into hydrogen you are loosing energy in more than just one place, charging system being one, then you must calculate the loss of the gas converted to electrical, then the electrical to hydrogen, and it could get real in depth on, and on.

However if one wanted to design a engine to obtain certain characteristics using hydrogen to do so, I would then commend the person for experimenting, however as above a hydrogen generator will be less efficient every time when used in a "adapted" application.

All that said, I'm interested in the outcome, and wish you luck, research, and document for those of use that our brains starve for information.

[RPalmer]

Originally Posted by B1jetmech

I'll chime in.

I have been messing around with different hydrogen generators this last year. Had great results from some while others didn't work.

I'm guessing that the perceived or real results were the result of the environment. That being a warm day vs. not as much moisture. The warm day would have more oxygen and seem to run better. You might want to incorporate weather conditions in your record keeping. Good luck you could be the next ga-zillionare.

[weaverama]

Well thanks a lot guys! I have no idea what you are all talking about and it makes me feel really stupid. I'm calling my therapist.

[B1jetmech]

Originally Posted by clint

It's just not a boost, for this to work the entire platform would have to be designed for the mean datum point of hydrogen being used all the time, this would mean a electrical system from wiring to charging capacity incorporated into the the design of the engine, and then you must take into account compression ratios, timing, material being used in valves, pistons, and if you get more power that means all things transmitting that power will need to be designed for this.

For the Cub to use it it needs to dedicate 4-5 amps continuous. It will need an on/off switch to the hydrogen generator. The Cub's charging capacity is rated at 15 amps at full power, not using lights or PTO there won't be a burden on the charging system at 4-5 amps.

As far as compression ratios, timing, material being used in valves, pistons there isn't enough hydrogen introduced to change the thermodynamics of the engine. Hydrogen does burn 3 times faster then gasoline however this facilitates the complete burn of gasoline. Gasoline's typical efficiency goes from 25% of the fuel used to power to almost a 100% when hydrogen is introduced. Since gasoline is the dominant fuel for this application there is no other modification needed to timing. If more hydrogen is used to the point it it the dominate fuel then timing must be retarded to accommodate hydrogen's use, if not then the engine will ping, predetonate, ect. That won't be the case. This little generator will produce about 300 ML per minute which is more then adequate for this little motor.

When hydrogen is introduced into a motor one will notice the engine will run quieter and run smoother, even diesels. I'll wonder if that happens to the kohler.

You see, I use to think this was a scam and was "snake oil". A friend gave a hydrogen generator that he was done messing with. I looked at it, it was a 4" PVC pipe with two pieces of rolled stainless steel. Cost about $15 dollars to make. I installed it on a 93' Chevy truck 4X4, 5 speed. To my surprise my mileage went from 11 to 14mpg around town. from 16 to 18 mpgon the highway. I couldn't believe it! The engine had more torque and it ran smooth and quiet. it only cost around 15 $$$ to make this. I could spend 3 thousand dollars and not improve mileage like that. That is what got me jump started in this hobby.

Originally Posted by clint

Now back to the point, anytime you convert energy you loose energy, it's a fact that can not be ignored, if your converting "water" into hydrogen you are loosing energy in more than just one place, charging system being one, then you must calculate the loss of the gas converted to electrical, then the electrical to hydrogen, and it could get real in depth on, and on.

Yes it does create energy to create energy and this isn't perpetual...where as I can create hydrogen on demand to fuel the vehicle 100% by the vehicle's charging system can't be done. However, the vehicle's charging system can produce enough hydrogen to gain 30-50% increase in fuel mileage. It can go further with electronic devices such as Pulse Width Modulator that gives a generator the same amount of production with 30-40% less energy consumption. I won't have a PWM on the cub.

The rule of thumb is for every 10 amps there is one liter per minute of hydrogen production. I need at least 3 liters a minute to give a good boost in fuel mileage for my Suburban, that will need 30 amps to power the generator which the stock charging system can sustain. If I want more production, I will have to increase the amps but that puts a bigger burden on the Alternator. I do have options like an higher output alternator, add another battery all to accommodate more hydrogen production for more fuel mileage. I can even add an underdrive pulley to the alternator to decrease parasitic drag. The first thing for me is to add another battery. But if I can go from 13 MPG to 20 MPG then it's worth it. I can go higher if I wish to modify the electrical system further. I have a new generator I'm building for this application.

Originally Posted by clint

However if one wanted to design a engine to obtain certain characteristics using hydrogen to do so, I would then commend the person for experimenting, however as above a hydrogen generator will be less efficient every time when used in a "adapted" application.

Technically, you can use any engine. The key issue is retarding the timing to accommodating that faster burning hydrogen because unlike gasoline, hydrogen burn focuses more on the POWER stroke rather then compression/power stroke. I have yet to see anyone do it just hear urban legends of them doing it then they mysterious die from hired assassins from OPEC...HA Ha! just kidding. I haven't seen anyone do it on straight hydrogen. another issue on running an engine on straight hydrogen is corrosion. When hydrogen burns it re-combines with oxygen molecules forming water and goes out the tail pipe as steam. Some this moisture corrodes the inside of the cylinder when the engine sits for a couple of days. so there needs protections to prevent this. I'm far from that and don't count on getting to that point soon.

Originally Posted by clint

All that said, I'm interested in the outcome, and wish you luck, research, and document for those of use that our brains starve for information.

Thanks for the push LOL!

NASA experimented with this back in 1977 on a caddy 472 engine. Here is the link:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1977016170.pdf

Take care,

Chase

[B1jetmech]

Originally Posted by RPalmer

I'm guessing that the perceived or real results were the result of the environment. That being a warm day vs. not as much moisture. The warm day would have more oxygen and seem to run better. You might want to incorporate weather conditions in your record keeping. Good luck you could be the next ga-zillionare.

They were actually bad designs. Took too much amps like 25 amps and got half a liter/minute of hydrogen production that won't cut it. If i can't get 1 liter/ minute per ten amps with a PWM then I'm not maximizing the current load per hydrogen production. Might as well keep the vehicle stock.

The pictures you see is a "dry cell". A dry cell isn't submerged in water like the traditional "wet cells where the plates were dunked in a reservoir of water. which wasn't precise in production because of bumpy driving conditions.

The dry cell isn't submerged hence the name "dry cell". It has a water reservoir above it and circulates water on it's own with less amp draw. They are more expensive to make but it's a better design. The one you see has laser cut plates...I know someone with a laser...LOL!

Really, there are the "good the bad and the ugly in designs out there. You have to find the good one!

Chase

[jcrews]

Boy I really know how to stir up some CRAP:biggrin2.gif:

[B1jetmech]

I bet we can really "stir the pudd'n" about IH Cub cadet verses John Deere...LOL!