1650 starter shot

[J-Mech]

Guys.

Talked to Zip about this. Said he was using the tractor, shut it off, and now the starter won't work. All was fine. This really was sudden. So, we can eliminate the mouse nests, broken rods, and failed engines. (As a note, the motor was overhauled only a couple years ago.) It spins fine with the spark plug removed. I had him check the compression release. He says all seems well. At this point, we are leaning toward an electrical problem. I am not convinced that even though the starter was checked, that it's good. He's going to check the timing and make sure that it didn't change and become advanced for some reason, and also do a load check on the wiring up to the starter. Good luck Todd, and let us know!

[R Bedell]

Run a jumper across the Starter Solenoid large terminals to rule out bad contacts within. Tell us what you find.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by R Bedell

Run a jumper across the Starter Solenoid large terminals to rule out bad contacts within. Tell us what you find.

That's a good idea too.

I suggested that he disconnect the starter wire, then attach a battery load tester to the wire, and attach the ground (of the load tester) to the frame. Hold the key in the start position, then hit the button on the load tester. That will put a 50amp draw on the entire starting system. If something is weak it should show up.

[R Bedell]

Hell....let's jump to the Nitty Gritty.

Get a vehicle and jumper cables and run from the vehicle battery to the tractor starter. Black lead on the starter mount and the red lead to the starter terminal.
That eliminates all the tractor electrical and is going to tell the story right now.

[J-Mech]

There ya go!!! Agreed!

Only issue that I can see with that is, if the starter is weak, and you put a much larger CCA battery to it, it may mask the weak starter. Thoughts?

[darkminion_17]

The shim thingy sounds like a thing to try.

Did they rebuid the bendix components or clean them? How is the spring?

[J-Mech]

***I don't mean to talk for Todd, but I know he's out working in the shop.***

Todd cleaned the bendix and lubed it. He says the spring is intact and seems to pull it back into place when pulled out and let go.

The starter sticking in the ring gear doesn't bother me too much. The bendix won't pull in until the load is off, or the engine starts and spins it back in. I really think it's sticking in the ring gear because the motor stops turning, and then he lets off the starter. When the starter motor stops and the motor doesn't move either, it's normal for the bedix gear to stick. I see that sort of thing alot...... mostly on bigger motors, but I've seen a lot of "lawn mower" starters that do that.

[zippy1]

Well I drained all the fluid out of it and rolled it down the hill into the pond for a fish crib
No... checked the timing and it's fine. Took the fuel tank off and checked everything behind the dash to make sure there was nothing wrong back there. Fine!
Didn't get the load test done yet. But I did take the starter apart again figuring what do I have to loose. Went over the commentator with some emery cloth as well as the brushes. Put it back together and installed it and it fired right up. Started three times, woohoo!! Fixed!! Ah, no.
Same thing. I'll try the load test tomorrow. But I did order a starter off evil-pay tonight.
As the boys and I were talking today, it's leaning that way regardless what the test showed. So figured might as well get the thing ordered and the ball rolling.
Thanks everyone for the ideas, we'll get it going sooner or later

[dvogtvpe]

the one ground people overlook is the one from the engine to the frame at the right front. it is a rubber mounted engine and needs that ground

[Berwil]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Only issue that I can see with that is, if the starter is weak, and you put a much larger CCA battery to it, it may mask the weak starter. Thoughts?

I don't know that I buy that. While the engine may start easier, I think there would still be a tell. If the starter used more amps from the larger battery, those amps have to go some where. The engine takes the same finite amount of power to start regardless of the condition of the starter. Any extra power consumed would be turned into heat. I think the starter would be smoking hot after turning over the engine for a short period. Just my "thoughts".

I do like the load tester in place of the starter for checking the wiring. For those of us without a load tester, would a second tractor suffice? Unhook the problem starter and connect the start cable to the starter post of another tractor with jumper cables and ground the two machines together. See if you can turn over the second tractor with the first. I think Todd is past this, but just more thinking out loud.

Bill