Troubleshooting weak starter on 1650.... looking for advice

[Daddysignman]

Sorry to say but i had the same issue with my starter this year, it would work intermittently, and crank over fine sometimes, but most of the times weak. Especially when cold.

I would remove the starter and hook it up directly to the battery and test its strength. But it really sounds like you need a new set of brushes.'

I found a used starter on ebay ($21) with shipping and replaced it with that, because i couldnt get my starter apart.

Good luck.

[MBounds]

How does water displacement equal battery corrosion removal?? It doesn't.

Bad ground contact at frame from the battery will kil a QL electrical system. BTDT..

[Mike McKown]

Is the compression release working? Just curious.

[teejk]

Originally Posted by MBounds

How does water displacement equal battery corrosion removal?? It doesn't.

Bad ground contact at frame from the battery will kil a QL electrical system. BTDT..

it doesn't...but a shot of WD40 also removes rust/corrosion on contacts and I've seen it work on other than CubCadets and on my CC as a preliminary step (just a shot, not a soaking)...

battery connections no (they are easy enough to clean manually).

but the PTO switch (the ignition routes through there and there are a lot of little pins on that thing), the ignition switch and the brake switch, yes.

interesting to see if anybody chimes in on your battery to frame connection. when you say "kills", you mean it simply doesn't work? that would make sense but I can't see it hurting anything unless it was an intermittent grounding...

the other key though is the starter to nose ground wire which I guess is needed because of the QL rubber ISO mounts...far as I can tell the engine (coil, points, starter) gets no ground without that front cable having clean tight connections (essentially completes the grounding from the battery).

[R Bedell]

the PTO switch (the ignition routes through there and there are a lot of little pins on that thing), the ignition switch and the brake switch, yes.

This circuit ONLY allows to the starter solenoid to energize. It has NOTHING to do with a slow roll over.

WD40 is popular and cheap. IMO that is the only positive attributes to the product.

I ended up getting the starter hot and it started smoking

I think it is time to do so something with this starter. (A) Replace it (new or good used) or (B) take it to a Starter Repair Shop for testing and/or rebuild.

[teejk]

Originally Posted by R Bedell

This circuit ONLY allows to the starter solenoid to energize. It has NOTHING to do with a slow roll over.

WD40 is popular and cheap. IMO that is the only positive attributes to the product.



I think it is time to do so something with this starter. (A) Replace it (new or good used) or (B) take it to a Starter Repair Shop for testing and/or rebuild.

fine and dandy (everybody has an opinion on WD40)...cleaning the connections is a quick and cheap attempt to make sure all current is delivered where needed.

the fact that he got the starter hot and smoking...it doesn't take much given what he put it through out of frustration (btdt)...

a starter teardown can be done at home (disconnect the battery and hot terminal at the starter, 2 mounting bolts, 2 long screws on the starter itself) at which time he'll know what the brushes/springs look like. the fact that it worked at 30F but not at 12F would suggest a weak starter (all the fluids are stiff) which might simply be worn brushes (they do wear out).

so say $15 for an aftermarket brush set (Matt says they are just fine), not much to lose there other than time (and granted a bit of a mess...the residue from the old brushes needs to be contained). as long as the starter is out anyway, good time to clean that ground connection to the nose.

[R Bedell]

If he cooked the windings by getting them hot, all the $15.00 brush kits won't fix that.

[teejk]

Originally Posted by R Bedell

If he cooked the windings by getting them hot, all the $15.00 brush kits won't fix that.

it's only $15 Roland...he may or may not have cooked the windings...over cranking is common I think (and yeah that casing gets hot and might smoke a bit but that could be a number of things like residual oils and stuff) but he may still have a functioning starter. I tore mine apart a month or two ago and I can see why Kohler charges what they do (other than for the replacement brushes...that is not fair). They are well built.

$15 for a brush kit is a fraction of what it's going to cost him to replace/repair it...if it works, fine. If not, it's $15 and "experience gained".

[ol'George]

Armatures are always way overbuilt, they will withstand 2 x the voltage for many years.
That starter has no field coils, just P magnets.
Like I suggested in my early post, if it don't start properly with a heavy jumper attached directly to the terminal post, remove the starter and investigate it's condition.
Those starters are known to crack the magnets and/or come unglued.
it is really simple to do a disassembly of it.
after all these years, it prolly needs a good internal clean up @ the least.

[teejk]

Originally Posted by ol'George

Armatures are always way overbuilt, they will withstand 2 x the voltage for many years.
That starter has no field coils, just P magnets.
Like I suggested in my early post, it it don't start properly with a heavy jumper attached directly to the terminal post, remove the starter and investigate it's condition.
Those starters are known to crack the magnets and/or come unglued.
it is really simple to do a disassembly of it.
after all these years, it prolly needs a good internal clean up @ the least.

for the benefit of anybody finding this on google or whatever...there is a sticker on the outboard side that clearly says NOT to strike the starter (guess that's an old trick from the 50's/60's).

the magnets on this starter are glued onto the starter casing (hit it with a hammer and dislodge one of those is the same as buying a new starter).

it's not a big deal to unmount it (2 bolts, one of which holds the heavy ground wire to the nose to complete the ground from the battery to the frame). disconnect the battery first of course just to be safe. with the switch off it shouldn't matter but...

clear off a spot on a table/bench and put down newspaper (learned the hard way there...was doing some woodworking on the same bench and kept getting black streaks). the dust from the old brushes is very fine. pop the 2 long bolts to remove the cap (expect the brushes to pop along with 4 springs). I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol (magnets on the inside housing also). It's dirty business so don't wear your Sunday best.

Kohler manual (available here) shows how to mount the new brushes including the homemade brush holder. Only thing I can add there is that there is a slight bevel on one side of the brushes...it's in the manual but maybe overlooked...looking at the end-cap as you assemble the brushes, you should be looking at the bevel.

you will need the home-made brush holder (I had a scrap of aluminum J channel that worked just fine after I cut a slot into it to clear the starter shaft).

since I only had to rebuild my starter because it decided to dis-assemble itself, I put (blue) Lok-tite on the threads.