Deal on a 1000

[Wild Bill]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

replacement carb on order. I have a pile (three actually) of spare carbs but they are all for pre-QL tractors--wrong choke arm. Wondering? Can you swap this from one carb to the other? In other words, convert a 108 carb to work on the 1000. Can this be done?

I looked at the after market carbs that were on ebay a few weeks ago and that were the subject of a couple threads in the kohler engine forum, but they are no longer available. bought a used carb instead.

I'm seriously considering pulling the engine and rebuilding it now.

You're doing a nice job saving the 1000!

A couple of things for you to consider:
On the Kohler #26 and #30 carbs, there is an indentation in the top of the carb body where the throttle shaft comes through. You can install a bronze bushing into that area to take up the 'slop' between the throttle shaft and the carb body. If a throttle shaft is loose in it's bore, it will suck air around the throttle shaft, and you'll never be able to get the engine to run smooth.

Does your carb body have this circular indentation?

Also: You will seriously want to install the proper ducting around the muffler!

The engine is designed to pull air through/from the flywheel and push it over the head and around the cylinder, and past the muffler....exiting through the grill for cooling of the engine. (this also helps the tractor to be 'Quieter" to the operator). With no ducting around the muffler, the heat from the head-cylinder-muffler is essentially 'trapped' within the side covers and hood. You'll end up with 'hot' sheet metal, and discolored paint, along with possibly ruining the decals too.

Did you check the timing with a timing light while the engine was running?

'Fire out of the exhaust' Is it 'popping'? or Is it a fire like 'glow'?
Popping is a timing issue
Glowing is a fuel mixture issue -too rich-

Did you disassemble the carb and soak it in a gallon can of carb cleaner, then install a rebuild kit? Did you set the high and low speed mixture needles as per the manual?

If the exhaust valve was sticking open, the engine would die (no compression from the valve being stuck open) If the exhaust valve was sticking shut, the engine would backfire violently out of the carb (because that's the only way for the exhaust gasses to escape the cylinder) Backfiring out of the carb can also be a sign of a timing issue.

Governor issue: Did you 'sync' the governor shaft/arm to the throttle shaft as per the manual?

[sawdustdad]

Originally Posted by Wild Bill

You're doing a nice job saving the 1000!

A couple of things for you to consider:
On the Kohler #26 and #30 carbs, there is an indentation in the top of the carb body where the throttle shaft comes through. You can install a bronze bushing into that area to take up the 'slop' between the throttle shaft and the carb body. If a throttle shaft is loose in it's bore, it will suck air around the throttle shaft, and you'll never be able to get the engine to run smooth.

Does your carb body have this circular indentation?

Also: You will seriously want to install the proper ducting around the muffler!

The engine is designed to pull air through/from the flywheel and push it over the head and around the cylinder, and past the muffler....exiting through the grill for cooling of the engine. (this also helps the tractor to be 'Quieter" to the operator). With no ducting around the muffler, the heat from the head-cylinder-muffler is essentially 'trapped' within the side covers and hood. You'll end up with 'hot' sheet metal, and discolored paint, along with possibly ruining the decals too.

Did you check the timing with a timing light while the engine was running?

'Fire out of the exhaust' Is it 'popping'? or Is it a fire like 'glow'?
Popping is a timing issue
Glowing is a fuel mixture issue -too rich-

Did you disassemble the carb and soak it in a gallon can of carb cleaner, then install a rebuild kit? Did you set the high and low speed mixture needles as per the manual?

If the exhaust valve was sticking open, the engine would die (no compression from the valve being stuck open) If the exhaust valve was sticking shut, the engine would backfire violently out of the carb (because that's the only way for the exhaust gasses to escape the cylinder) Backfiring out of the carb can also be a sign of a timing issue.

Governor issue: Did you 'sync' the governor shaft/arm to the throttle shaft as per the manual?

Carb has a bushing installed, and was properly cleaned and rebuilt. Needles set per manual.

The fire out the exhaust is an intermittent popping sound. The engine is timed perfectly per the static timing procedure. When I say the exhaust valve might be sticking I'm not thinking it's open all the time, only that it's not fully closing all the time (or it's leaking). I don't think it's possible for the exhaust valve to be stuck "shut" if the cam and lifter are in place and lash is set to spec.

Yes, I synch'd the governor. It's just not operating. I'll have to disassemble and see what is going on with it.

Your point about the muffler shroud is valid. I'll have to think about that.

[J-Mech]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

Carb has a bushing installed, and was properly cleaned and rebuilt. Needles set per manual.

The fire out the exhaust is an intermittent popping sound. The engine is timed perfectly per the static timing procedure. When I say the exhaust valve might be sticking I'm not thinking it's open all the time, only that it's not fully closing all the time (or it's leaking). I don't think it's possible for the exhaust valve to be stuck "shut" if the cam and lifter are in place and lash is set to spec.

Yes, I synch'd the governor. It's just not operating. I'll have to disassemble and see what is going on with it.

Your point about the muffler shroud is valid. I'll have to think about that.

Sorry your engine isn't right Frank. I think your on the right track. I went back and looked at the pics of the inside of your motor. The exhaust valve is pretty black. That's a good indication that it was running rich, or low on compression, and that the exhaust valve isn't coming up to temp. On a disassembled engine it should be a tanish color. I think you'll find it not sealing. I may have mentioned this before, and you didn't say, but when you run a motor with the muffler off, it affects tune. A muffler works like a chimney on a stove, helping the engine "draw" air on valve overlap. You may have had the muffler on, you didn't say, just a note to others also. You should always tune with the muffler and air filter on. Continue on sir, I think you can handle the rebuild! Look at it this way...... at least the motor will be painted nice like the rest of the tractor now, and Sam won't have to bust on you anymore!

[sawdustdad]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Sorry your engine isn't right Frank. I think your on the right track. I went back and looked at the pics of the inside of your motor. The exhaust valve is pretty black. That's a good indication that it was running rich, or low on compression, and that the exhaust valve isn't coming up to temp. On a disassembled engine it should be a tanish color. I think you'll find it not sealing. I may have mentioned this before, and you didn't say, but when you run a motor with the muffler off, it affects tune. A muffler works like a chimney on a stove, helping the engine "draw" air on valve overlap. You may have had the muffler on, you didn't say, just a note to others also. You should always tune with the muffler and air filter on.

I did not have the muffler on as I was testing the engine. I was just trying to assess the engine's condition, but I understand the need to include the muffler and air filter when adjusting the carb. Both certainly change the breathing characteristics. The fact that the governor was not working was the kiss of death here and I don't think the muffler would have affected that outcome. I'm still learning a lot about these engines, and really appreciate your guidance. I'm pretty green when it comes to recognizing engine issues by appearance--you've obviously got enough experience to see things I easily miss. I'll look at the valves closely when I get the head off. I just got a decent dial bore mic, so I'll pull the piston and mic the bore and see what I've got and report the results.

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Continue on sir, I think you can handle the rebuild! Look at it this way...... at least the motor will be painted nice like the rest of the tractor now, and Sam won't have to bust on you anymore!

At this point, I'm glad I DIDN'T take the time to paint it. But it will certainly get a nice new paint job before going back in. Must be karma... You know, anything to keep Sam happy!

[Sam Mac]

Originally Posted by J-Mech

Look at it this way...... at least the motor will be painted nice like the rest of the tractor now, and Sam won't have to bust on you anymore!

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

At this point, I'm glad I DIDN'T take the time to paint it. But it will certainly get a nice new paint job before going back in. Must be karma... You know, anything to keep Sam happy!

You guys are tough. Think I'm getting a butt whipping.

[sawdustdad]

Pulled the engine (getting pretty good at this by now) and began to take it apart. Looks like someone recently replaced the intake valve and valve guide, and scraped the top of the piston clean. My initial readings indicate the cylinder is at the wear limit for .020 over (3.274 +/-) and is oval shape by .003 or so. It is not scored that I can see. The crank journal is 1.486, or .004 under the .010 under (1.490) dimension, so it's definitely going to have to go .020 under.
The oil dipstick tube is broken--don't know how I didn't see that before. Lots of oil on top of the piston.

Question for someone--How does the shaft bushing come out of the drive cup on the flywheel so I can remove the flywheel nut? didn't want to pry it out and damage it. Is it just pressed in?

Once I get the flywheel off, I can finish dis-assembly and take it to the machine shop.

[Berwil]

That's too bad about the engine issues, nothing you can't handle after rebuilding that 321! The rest of your work looks great so far, would love to do a complete resto as good as this one day. And yes, I would still think it as good if you hadn't painted the engine, unlike some.
Keep up the good work!

Bill

[Sam Mac]

Originally Posted by sawdustdad

Question for someone--How does the shaft bushing come out of the drive cup on the flywheel so I can remove the flywheel nut? didn't want to pry it out and damage it. Is it just pressed in?

Once I get the flywheel off, I can finish dis-assembly and take it to the machine shop.

I use an inside jaw bearing puller like in the pic. I have also removed pilot bushings by filling the inside with grease then you take a shaft that just fits through the hole in the center and hit it with a hammer. The hydraulic force will push the bushing out. Not sure that would be a good idea in this situation. Think I'd do the puller with a little heat from a propane torch on the drive hub and it should come out.

[Alvy]

That inside jaw puller looks sweet but not sure if the old school grease method will work only because that bushing moves inside another race. I have a hook type tool with a corresponding opposite end that you hook on the inside and then hammer on to extract. I've never done the quiet line bushing with this tool but imagine it would work. It will probably rip out the bushing leaving the race in. For the real stubborn types I get the bushing/bearing piece out and then weld a bead on the race, the bead will shrink it and it will almost fall out at that point. Blind hole bearings and bushings are sometimes fun to get out without having the special tools but a challenge is always good to beat.

Frank the second picture of that exhaust valve seat looks pretty toasted. Glad you took it apart

[sawdustdad]

Finished dis-assembly of the K241. Made a little slide hammer to pull the drive shaft pilot bushing, which came out quite easily. Hooked that little lip under the bushing and a few taps later, it was out. Flywheel came right off with a puller.

The PTO side crank main bearing is different than the bearing plate bearing, and different than the other main bearings that I've seen. Thoughts about this bearing? Have you seen this type of bearing used before?

I'll carry the block and crankshaft over to the machine shop today.