982 surging and wiring/pto issues

goosegt · #1 10-10-2015, 06:18 PM

Moderators please move to the correct forum.

Well all of a sudden a few problems came up at one time...........hoping they are related.

The Front PTO won't engage, the engine won't run unless I'm in the seat, and the engine started surging again.

SURGE: Last time the engine was surging I found a wire from the voltage regulator was burnt again. I have had to splice the two wires that go to it a few times, the connectors melt and the wires fry. This time the wiring looks good.....everything is connected.

PTO: I swapped my front PTO switch for a spare I have, same thing. Rear PTO switch also works. The PTO switches act normal, if they are on the engine won't turn over. The weird thing is that the engine WILL turn over if I am out of the seat but won't fire unless I am IN the seat. I have never had this problem or the PTO not engaging problem. I've always been able to start the tractor by depressing the left pedal while standing beside it.

The tractor is acting like the PTO is engaged while it is running, but not while it's off because it will still crank.

I am losing my mind cause my wife keeps on bitching to get a different mower, plus I need it to clear the driveway this winter.

Does anyone see a link between these problems?

Also........I thought it was my relay. It makes a high pitch squeal when the rear PTO switch is on. I changed relays and it does the same thing. I am honestly stumped because all safety switches seem to work.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

john hall · #2 10-10-2015, 08:11 PM

Some of the wiring experts will hopefully be along shortly. In the meantime, I had to replace the regulator on my 982. The old one literally fried the connections. I bought one from D B Electrical for about $12. Put new insulated ends on the harness and that problem was solved.

The surging, maybe your carb needs adjusting? I really don't think electrical when I have an engine that is surging, that's normally more a miss. Look at the Onan posts under the engine section.

The PTO--have you checked the air gap? Search the forum, should be some instructions around here somewhere to tell you how to adjust and how much to set it at. FYI, I have heard of instances with bad batteries, charging systems causing the electric clutch not to work properly. Since you mentioned wiring issues with the regulator I thought I would just throw that out there.

mobermiller · #3 10-11-2015, 08:14 AM

OK, I have spent the last hour studying the wiring diagram. Link here: http://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21

When you turn on the key to the run position, 12 volts is sent through the 15 amp fuse to the seat switch and the front and rear PTO clutch switches. The front PTO switch, when off, sends 12 volts through terminal B to E (the normally closed contacts of the relay) to the + side of the ignition coil. When the rear PTO switch is switched on, this energizes the relay and opens the contacts thus cutting power to the ignition coil. When you sit in the seat 12 volts is then restored to the ignition coil via the seat switch. This is why it will run when you sit in the seat.

You said you think the PTO is engaged while it's running and when you turn the rear PTO switch to on it causes the relay to squeal. I think your rear PTO switch is the problem. I think the contacts within the switch that energizes the rear PTO and the relay have welded themselves together thus keeping this circuit energized at all times while the key is turned on. Replace the rear PTO switch with a known good one and see if this solves the problem.

I hope this solves the problem with the ignition. The front PTO I feel is a completely different issue unless there is not enough power to fully energize both PTO's at the same time. I would replace the voltage regulator as suggested by John Hall.

Let's solve each issue one thing at a time.

goosegt · #4 10-11-2015, 02:34 PM

What I meant was that the tractor is acting like the PTO is engaged because it won't stay running if I am out of the seat.

The engine won't crank if either PTO switches are on: Correct
Engine quits when I get off the seat with PTOs off: Wrong--should stay running
Engine cranks when I am out of the seat but doesn't fire: Wrong--should fire and run

All these problems did happen at the same time

Do you guys know off hand if the voltage regulator is the same for the BG and P220 engines? Mine has a Performer 220 with the regulator mounted in the engine cover near the coil. As both mentioned, it does seem to need a new regulator so that is something I will try.

I did swap the front and rear PTO switch with my spare one (new), it didn't resolve any of the issues.

aagitch · #5 10-11-2015, 04:56 PM

When you say "rear pto switch" are you talking about the directional switch? It seems like a relay, pto switch, or directional switch problem.

R Bedell · #6 10-11-2015, 05:51 PM

IF....either PTO switch is in the ON position, you have to be sitting in the seat or the engine will die. That is NORMAL and a safety feature.

IF...either PTO switch is in the ON position, you will not be able to start the tractor. The engine will not roll over. This is NORMAL and a designed safety feature.

goosegt · #7 10-11-2015, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aagitch

When you say "rear pto switch" are you talking about the directional switch? It seems like a relay, pto switch, or directional switch problem.

The rear 3point w/PTO drive it originally had.........it was removed though before my dad bought it.

goosegt · #8 10-11-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Bedell

IF....either PTO switch is in the ON position, you have to be sitting in the seat or the engine will die. That is NORMAL and a safety feature.

IF...either PTO switch is in the ON position, you will not be able to start the tractor. The engine will not roll over. This is NORMAL and a designed safety feature.

You are correct, I think I worded my last one wrong. But that's why this is so strange.

IF....either PTO switch is in the ON position, you have to be sitting in the seat or the engine will die. That is NORMAL and a safety feature. yup but mine is quitting with both PTO switches in the OFF position

IF...either PTO switch is in the ON position, you will not be able to start the tractor. The engine will not roll over. This is NORMAL and a designed safety feature. this is what mine does

One last thing I noticed was with the key off the charge indicator shows the battery voltage in the positive like it should. When the key is turned one position the lights come on and the voltage goes down as it should. When the key is turned to run the lights go out and the voltage goes back to the positive again as it should. But when I depress the seat switch the voltage goes down just as it did when the lights came on...........but nothing is coming on....right?? The seat switch being depressed while in the run position with engine off shouldn't be drawing any voltage right....or am I wrong?????

mobermiller · #9 10-11-2015, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goosegt

But when I depress the seat switch the voltage goes down just as it did when the lights came on...........but nothing is coming on....right?? The seat switch being depressed while in the run position with engine off shouldn't be drawing any voltage right....or am I wrong?????

OK, did you study the wiring diagram? The ignition coil is energized by 2 separate wires. One set of wires runs to the seat switch. When you sit on the seat, the switch closes and 12 volts goes to the ignition coil. This is why you see a discharge on the amp gauge. The ignition coil is energized and this is why it runs when your in the seat.

Now the 2nd wire, as I wrote above, goes to the front PTO switch, when off, sends 12 volts through terminal B to E (the normally closed contacts of the relay) to the + side of the ignition coil.

I just thought of something, did you check the 15 amp fuse to see if it's blown? This explains EVERYTHING!!!

If it's not blown then trace this circuit all the way to the coil and see where your losing power. I tried to show you where the power is going in this 2nd line to the ignition coil on the attached wiring diagram.

goosegt · #10 10-11-2015, 10:36 PM

I did check the fuse first thing and it looked fine. It looks like a slow blow not sure if it should be I'll look up that info after I write this.

I checked it with my ohm meter and it seems to be bad, but it looks perfectly new. I'm so fumbled about this I can't even think straight anymore........oh yeah my refrigerator isn't cooling properly either so I'm dealing with that now today too.