169 motor "originality" based on fin count - any info?

cledford · #1 01-07-2011, 01:49 PM

There is a detailed look going on over at the IH Cub Cadet forum related to the originality of motors in 169s. Apparently, if the motor has 13 cooling fins on it, it is considered to be original to the tractor, while 12 fins is held to indicate the motor was replaced or rebuilt.

Does anyone have any info on this? I spent a pretty decent sum of money to acquire my 169, along with some really expensive NOS parts to do a really nice refurb - yet hadn't heard any of this about fins - and sorta freaked out when this came to my attention.

Then, stopping and thinking about it for a bit, I'm not sure where the information related to fins (the belief that whether the motor is original in the 169 or not is based on the number of fins) makes any sense at all. First (this is an assumption on my part), there were very few of the 16hp engines in the 169 produced - prior to the advent of the 1650. The motors in the 2 tractors are different (I don't believe the 169 version has the ACR), one can look at the air filter housings and the fact that they are painted different - so it's not like 1650 motors could have been transplanted into many 169s - not without being noticeable.

So assuming that 1650 engines weren't used to replace old 169 engines, the 12 vs. 13 fin doesn't make a lot of sense to me related to indication of original or replaced/rebuilt motors. How many motors could have required replacing/rebuilding early in the service life of a tractor series that many examples of are STILL running on the original, unaltered engine?

Especially when one considers a complete replacement? Even way back in the day that would have an expensive repair (replacing an entire engine)that I don't think many owners would have gone for if they tore up their engine - and how often did that happen? We owned a 1200 when I was growing up and while there were a number of repairs required (ISO mounts, drive shaft coupling, PTO oil seal, gas tank replacement, many seats and tires) the engine ran fine (and wasn't ever treated with much TLC) and was run hard for 20+ years - stored outside the entire time. Even after sitting outdoors for several more years after my dad passed, it fired up with little effort - which seems common for Cubs.

So how could there have been that many failures (requiring an engine replacement or rebuild requiring jug replacement) for such a small sampling of the WF series? My only guess would be if there was a really, really serious design flaw with the 169 16hp motors, leading to a large number of widespread catastrophic failures, leading to a large # of warranty based complete engine transplants. However, wouldn't such a thing be well remembered and/or documented?

Any information on all of this would be appreciated! These types of mysteries (and people coming together to solve them) is what makes this all so fun and worthwhile.

Thanks,

-Calvin

MrGitrdone41 · #2 01-07-2011, 07:21 PM

I know that replacement engines from Kohler are black not yellow. My 128 engine was black. You can look up the serial number online to find the date it was made. IDK about the fins? But I know that the 1650 engines are AQS engines.

red56turbo · #3 01-07-2011, 10:30 PM

Calvin,
I too have been watching this discussion and find it very interesting. My 169 has the original 13 fin 16 horse motor. IMHO, I feel the 169's are neat tractors whether 12 or 13 fins. I had a second 169 that I sold and it too had a 13 fin block. It would be kind of interesting to know what actually happened in the factory when they were assembled. Some of the 169's came out of the factory with manual lifts because they ran short of hydraulic lifts. This to me is also neat info. If a person was going to spend some extra cash for a 169 vs. 149, you would think they'd want hydraulic lift

One of the biggest thing that kills a kohler prematurely is the lovely grenade gears. I've see a lot of K341's with that extra window option:biggrin2.gif:.

I, too enjoy following the discussion.

JayBrd · #4 01-07-2011, 11:59 PM

I will look into some stuff I have a document stashed on this kind of thing.. I know they used the K181 as a factory replacement for the K161 in the CCO. Which yes the had the oil bath AC on the 161, but finding one with the tiny paper filter AC is not overly not right.. Maybe they either ran short on the 16hp blocks or was maybe more cost effective to use a different block for later/replacement 16hp motors? But I think what I have showed the factory replacement motor number for a set Cub model.. I could be wrong though..

R Bedell · #5 01-08-2011, 08:00 AM

I have read postings (on various forums) that Kohler had 13 Fins blocks on the K-301 (12HP) & K-321 (14HP) blocks also. Can't seem to find a reason why there was this interchange.

The only thing that I can personally think of, was that Kohler was thinking of extra fin(s) for extra cooling or heat dissipation capacity.