149 Electrical Problem

[Ambush]

Late in the fall I was doing some fairly heavy ground work when the engine quit on a steep bank from lack of fuel. I refueled and when trying to restart the starter wouldn't catch like it had a dead battery. I tried a booster pack, but that didn't work either. Eventually I just started it, the next day by using jumpers from a good battery straight to the starter. The ammeter has been swinging wildly ever since. Sometimes it will start, sometimes it won't turn over. Yesterday it had the dead battery symptoms again so I fully charged the battery, but still nothing. Just the odd time I'd hear a click from the solenoid.

I'm wondering if I have a voltage regulator issue as well as maybe a solenoid issue. All connections were removed and cleaned this spring.

Now here is the strange thing (at least to me); with the battery still in the system I connected boosters from the battery, ground to the engine block and positive I touched to the starter terminal to turn it over, key on. It started. BUT, when I touched to ground to the engine block initially, there was a visible spark. Why would the ground spark on the engine block? The positive booster clamp was not connected yet.

Could a malfunctioning voltage regulator cause that?

Its a 1973 149.

[Red Dave]

Originally Posted by Ambush

Late in the fall I was doing some fairly heavy ground work when the engine quit on a steep bank from lack of fuel. I refueled and when trying to restart the starter wouldn't catch like it had a dead battery. I tried a booster pack, but that didn't work either. Eventually I just started it, the next day by using jumpers from a good battery straight to the starter. The ammeter has been swinging wildly ever since. Sometimes it will start, sometimes it won't turn over. Yesterday it had the dead battery symptoms again so I fully charged the battery, but still nothing. Just the odd time I'd hear a click from the solenoid.

I'm wondering if I have a voltage regulator issue as well as maybe a solenoid issue. All connections were removed and cleaned this spring.

Now here is the strange thing (at least to me); with the battery still in the system I connected boosters from the battery, ground to the engine block and positive I touched to the starter terminal to turn it over, key on. It started. BUT, when I touched to ground to the engine block initially, there was a visible spark. Why would the ground spark on the engine block? The positive booster clamp was not connected yet.

Could a malfunctioning voltage regulator cause that?

Its a 1973 149.

I'm not clear on what you were doing. It sounds like you were using jumper cables (NOT a jump box) to bypass the battery cables from the battery to the chassis ground. It also sounds like you got a spark when you bypassed the battery ground cable from the battery to the engine block.

Is that correct?

If so, then it sounds to me that you have either an open or high resistance battery ground cable. Yes, it could mean a bad regulator, but those symptoms may also indicate the ground battery lead being intermittent.

Maybe verify the integrity/continuity of the ground side battery cable and replace it if needed. Then troubleshoot the regulator.

Fix one problem at a time, then look farther if needed.

Maybe somebody with more Cub Cadet experience that has run into this problem could understand your problem better than I can get from your post?

[Ambush]

I initially used a jump box at the battery with no result.

When I noticed the spark today, I had booster cables attached to the tractor battery. I had the key turned to ON. When I clamped the ground side of the cable to the engine, there was a very noticeable spark and I could hear the “crackle” The positive side had not yet been touched to the starter.

I’m just not sure why a ground would spark? The battery is still in the system.

But I will double check both ground cables. I have a ground to frame at the battery box and a cable from frame to engine at the front.

[Billy-O]

You had your tractor keyed on using booster cables and getting spark when touching cable to ground might mean you are completing the circuit.... As was said, check your ground cable as well as double check your work on the wiring you did back in spring.

It could be regulator...do make sure it is grounded.

[Ambush]

Thanks, I will double check the grounds. It started and ran fine for several months after reassembly. And I may be chasing two unrelated problems that just happened at the same time or that I noticed at the same time. The ammeter tends to fluctuate quite a bit but usually settles down in a few minutes after a start.

I guess I was concerned that maybe using the booster pack had a bad affect on the voltage regulator. I hate electrical work. I'm always afraid of letting the smoke out!

[ol'George]

AS others have said, it sounds like you completed the ground circuit.
Do check where the ground is mounted to the chassis.
Also the battery cable where it attaches to the lug on both ends.(in other words the crimp on the cable)

EDIT: Your ammeter is telling you you have an intermittent connection, check its terminals also

[Red Dave]

Originally Posted by Ambush

I initially used a jump box at the battery with no result.

When I noticed the spark today, I had booster cables attached to the tractor battery. I had the key turned to ON. When I clamped the ground side of the cable to the engine, there was a very noticeable spark and I could hear the “crackle” The positive side had not yet been touched to the starter.

I’m just not sure why a ground would spark? The battery is still in the system.

But I will double check both ground cables. I have a ground to frame at the battery box and a cable from frame to engine at the front.

You stated that you had the key ON. It is entirely possible the ignition points were closed, which would draw current when the circuit is completed. Completing the circuit on the ground side is no different that completing it on the "Hot" side. All part of the same circuit.

Still sounds like a ground cable problem.

[Ambush]

Well, I believe you guys were correct, with George hitting the nail right on the head.

I had the battery out and was checking continuity between the ground cable end and the frame and engine. All good. Then it wasn’t? Flexing the short cable as I was holding the probe on the end would cause intermittent continuity. Turns out I could wiggle the wire in the frame end lug. I removed it and with just a little tugging I pulled the wire out of the lug. The original eye must have been damaged so some PO just trimmed the end, pushed a larger lug on it and dribbled in a little solder into it. It eventually came (mostly) loose. I cleaned everything and swedged a new lug on for now. Tractor turned over like it should and I’ll run it for a while tomorrow to test. I think I’ll just change out all the heavy cables this winter.

Thanks again guys for convincing me to double check
The grounds!

[ol'George]

Thanks for posting back, we all were anxiously awaiting the results.
Glad another cub lives and the info is left for all time to help others with similar
concerns.

[jbrewer]

I love a happy ending.

You followed the right method in diagnosing this. You described the problem in detail and asked for help BEFORE starting parts swapping. Because of the path you followed, you got accurate advice and found the issue quickly.

There's so many threads on here where people start throwing parts at the problem without really understanding what fix is needed. I know that I've been there too! The problem is, after a round or two of part swapping, there's likely to be the original problem PLUS one or two others introduced by the parts swapping exercise. That now makes it tough to help diagnose the original problem.

Moral of the story: Know what is wrong before you start to fix it!

Congrats on the quick fix!