M18 missing under load

Grand Pops 1810 · #1 09-20-2012, 08:15 PM

Hey guys, My 1810 is missing/stalling under load, in this case, trying to mow up hill. The engine will sputter and quit on a hill after the tractor warms up. I've tried the easy suspects, new plugs, new clear fuel filter, loosened the gas cap, all to no avail. I've read that the plastic fuel pumps in these things can cause trouble, so i was leaning towards that. There was some strange pulsing seen in the fuel filter outlet, may be abnormal. Then there also have been a few backfires out the exhaust while the engine is trying to stall. This has me thinking the fuel pump is okay and still pumping while the coil cuts out, then backfires when the coil fires again.

Does the M18 need to be lifted out of the frame to change either the fuel pump or coil? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Scott

Oak · #2 09-20-2012, 08:40 PM

If you have to change the coil, you need to pull the engine. It's easy to do and it will probably need a good cleaning. You can see where the fuel pump and the coil mounted in the pics. These pics are from my 1811 that was running fine but had a front main seal leaking.

Fastbuck · #3 09-20-2012, 11:02 PM

You can actually change the coil on a M18 without pulling the engine. With some care and a cutoff wheel you can cut an access panel in the engine shroud. Then fabricate a cover to properly fit over the hole and secure in place with sheet metal screws. Paint it satin black and it looks like it belongs there. Some may not like to make modifications like this I guess.

Matt G. · #4 09-21-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbuck

You can actually change the coil on a M18 without pulling the engine. With some care and a cutoff wheel you can cut an access panel in the engine shroud. Then fabricate a cover to properly fit over the hole and secure in place with sheet metal screws. Paint it satin black and it looks like it belongs there. Some may not like to make modifications like this I guess.

Those protruding sheet metal screws will just add to the amount of things that can collect grass and other crap that makes it past the flywheel screen. It's faster to pull the engine, and there's probably a lot of cleaning that should be done while the flywheel cover is off. Good time to service the starter as well.

One thing I've learned is that taking shortcuts like you've described usually results in more time being spent fixing things that should have been done right the first time.

Grand Pops 1810 · #5 09-21-2012, 08:12 PM

Thanks guys! I've got a busy fall lined up, so the Cub may go on the back burner for a few months or until early spring. I can use my old Gilson to get me through this season. I'll read up on pulling the M18. Lord knows I've pulled the cast iron 16hp Briggs out of the Gilson enough times, I should be able to handle the M18. How heavy is the M18? My back is not so good. Reasonable for 2 guys to handle, or should I rig some pulleys to lift it out?

Scott

Fastbuck · #6 09-21-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt G.

Those protruding sheet metal screws will just add to the amount of things that can collect grass and other crap that makes it past the flywheel screen. It's faster to pull the engine, and there's probably a lot of cleaning that should be done while the flywheel cover is off. Good time to service the starter as well.

One thing I've learned is that taking shortcuts like you've described usually results in more time being spent fixing things that should have been done right the first time.

Well, I guess "done right the first time" depends on your point of view. In mine, the engine would have had these access panels from the factory. As for your statement about the screws catching crap, that is correct. On the other hand, after putting in a panel like I described, you will be able to open it up in about a minute and have access to all that crap you talk about and you can clean it up without having to pull the engine. I'd bet that crap gets cleaned out a lot more often than if you had to pull the engine. And in my 37 years working on jet engines, I've learned that the more often you take something apart, the more likely you are to cause more problems than you had to begin with. Of course if you just like to tinker around, you are welcome to it.

Fastbuck · #7 09-21-2012, 08:35 PM

This afternoon I pulled off the engine cowl on the left side to clean and lube the starter drive on my 1811. I was really surprised at how easy it is to access the starter. Far easier than I had anticipated. Photo was taken before I cleaned the drive and put on dry lubricant.

I also installed an inline fuel filter where the fuel pump would be in the line. My engine was having problems after it was warmed up and that problem appears to have gone away now that the fuel pump is out of the picture. Gravity feed works just fine on this application. As long as you keep the fuel in the tank above the level of the carb it should work fine. I capped off the ports on the pump with plastic cap plugs.

Matt G. · #8 09-21-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbuck

Well, I guess "done right the first time" depends on your point of view. In mine, the engine would have had these access panels from the factory. As for your statement about the screws catching crap, that is correct. On the other hand, after putting in a panel like I described, you will be able to open it up in about a minute and have access to all that crap you talk about and you can clean it up without having to pull the engine. I'd bet that crap gets cleaned out a lot more often than if you had to pull the engine. And in my 37 years working on jet engines, I've learned that the more often you take something apart, the more likely you are to cause more problems than you had to begin with. Of course if you just like to tinker around, you are welcome to it.

Not to argue, but no way are you going to clean off the fins on the other side of the engine through a little hole over the magneto. A little preventative maintenance goes a long way...blowing off the flywheel screen with an air compressor and keeping the underside of the tractor clean go a long way towards keeping stuff from getting in there. Do that, and there won't be much of a need to be cleaning in there all the time. It's not like you're going to be pulling the shroud off every other mowing or something. Mine come off once when I first get the tractor so everything can get cleaned, and most of my tractors have not had it removed since unless needed for some other maintenance. Not sure what the big deal is here...

Vince_o · #9 09-22-2012, 06:40 AM

If it were me, and only me, I wouldnt cut a hole in anything, but its not my engine. Next I would pull the eng out and clean the fins as Todd and Matt say. Yould be surprised how much junk will build up in the fins, espically if you have a small oil leak. You dont want to over heat the jugs, as a piston and ring set for one side is about 100 bucks or more. Take the time to do the job right as it will save you head aches in the long run.

Ask me how I know this.

Todd wheres that eng now? YOu wanna trade it for a nice 1863, LOL

Fastbuck · #10 09-23-2012, 01:00 AM

I'm sure you guys who are urging me to "do it the right way" are following the maintenance manuals? The Cub Cadet manual says to remove the blower housing and cooling shrouds every 50 hours. Is there a way to do this without pulling the engine?

Now hop on over to the Service Manual for CC models 1050, 1202, 1210, 1211, 1810, 1811, 1812, 2072, 1572, 1772 and 1872. (Form number 772-3899) Drop down to page 1-37 and follow through to page 1-44 where you will find the instructions for "doing it the right way". There are 26 steps to take to remove the 18 and 20 HP engines and as many to re-install. Each one of these steps however minor, is a potential problem you might be causing.

I'm sure there are shortcuts you experienced folks can take to shorten the process but "doing it the right way" to me means following the manuals.

I simply offered an easier way to get a specific job done on these engines. If you cannot pull off the shrouds (I refer to them as cowling) without pulling the engine, and still be able to access the cooling fins for cleaning, all I can do is feel sorry for you. The bottom line is that Kohler should have provided access covers for these jobs but didn't. I see nothing wrong with improving on the great engines they built.

And as to the $100 repair someone mentioned to replace one jug, wow that's almost 2 hours pay. And the equipment I worked on for 37 years had single bolts that cost that much.

I didn't intend to step on any toes but to imply that your ideas are better than mine without know my background is very insulting to me.