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-   -   Cub Low Boy 154 Clutch Issue (https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46135)

cgmiller 10-03-2016 04:22 PM

Cub Low Boy 154 Clutch Issue
 
Hello Folks,

I just picked up a sweet Cub Low Boy 154 Friday night. It has an issue with the clutch. It pops out of gear when in 1st or reverse unless the throttle is pushed way up. You cant get the tranny into gear unless the throttle is dropped way down (if that normal) and then unless you are holding the lever it pops out of gear immediately. Not an issue in 2nd or 3rd gear. I tried mowing a little Saturday afternoon (in the rain) before I put it in the barn and she did not seem to like going up hill in 2nd gear and would start to bog down..now this is my first time with an actual piece of machinery with a clutch and gears since I have a stick shift car 35 years ago. Thanks for the info~!o

Sam Mac 10-03-2016 05:59 PM

This is above my pay grade, time for Dr. J-Mech.:beerchug:

J-Mech 10-03-2016 06:11 PM

Hello Mr. Miller and welcome to the forum!

We do not have a section for the Lo-Boy tractors so we use the "General Talk" area. I moved your thread to the proper place.

As far as the trans popping out of gear, it likely has a worn shift fork on the 1st/rev slider. Either that or the edges are wore off the sliding gear because of the clutch issue. (See below.) It is also possible that the detent on the shift shaft is not working.... You will have to take the trans apart to fix it no matter which issue it is. Not a simple job.

The clutch on a 154 is on the front of the transmission. It does have a transmission brake. It's job is to stop the input shaft when the clutch pedal is depressed so that you can get it into gear quicker and without grinding. There is an adjustment procedure which is outlined in the service manual. All parts are available for the clutch.

The manual can be downloaded here:
http://service.mtdproducts.com/Train...-gss-1408.html

For parts, I suggest these guys:
http://hamiltonbobs.com/cart/search/...cub-lo-boy-mm4

Let me know if I can be any help. :beerchug:

cgmiller 10-03-2016 09:10 PM

John,

Thanks for the info. I reached out to Bob before I bought the tractor. I told him that he would be my new best friend for a bit. Either way it sounds like I should take her down the road to the local mechanic shop so that it gets fixed properly and I don't spend months trying to fix it.

Lanceskene 10-03-2016 10:43 PM

The tranny itself is pretty basic and easy enough to work on but its a good half days work just to split the tractor. I had a shift fork issue in my first 154 so Ive been there and fixed that but since then the rear pressure plate broke so that 154 is now a parts donor for my second 154. They are actually pretty simple basic machines to work on.

J-Mech 10-03-2016 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanceskene (Post 394696)
The tranny itself is pretty basic and easy enough to work on but its a good half days work just to split the tractor. I had a shift fork issue in my first 154 so Ive been there and fixed that but since then the rear pressure plate broke so that 154 is now a parts donor for my second 154. They are actually pretty simple basic machines to work on.

Lance, I agree with you. They are simple..... but they are much larger than a garden tractor. If you don't have a decent garage with a fairly large jack, jack stands, and some kind of a crane or splitting stand.... It's just a bit more than the average do-it-yourselfer has at home to work with. It's not the complexity so much as the size. :beerchug:

I can split a 100HP tractor in a couple hours. I'd honestly rather do that than split a Lo-Boy.:biggrin2: They just aren't as "friendly" to work on.

Lanceskene 10-03-2016 11:41 PM

Oh ya I wasnt suggesting its a job everyone can, or should do, but I think if people want to own antique tractors and actually use them they should try and learn how to work on them, and in this case it is a 'fairly' simple job once you get all the body work and wheels out of the way... which as you mentioned does require some equipment that the OP may or may not have access to.

J-Mech 10-04-2016 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanceskene (Post 394703)
Oh ya I wasnt suggesting its a job everyone can, or should do, but I think if people want to own antique tractors and actually use them they should try and learn how to work on them, and in this case it is a 'fairly' simple job once you get all the body work and wheels out of the way... which as you mentioned does require some equipment that the OP may or may not have access to.

:IH Trusted Hand:

cgmiller 10-04-2016 12:25 PM

This kind of intel is exactly why I asked the question of the "experts". I am all for doing things myself, but I have limits and one big one is time. I have been acquiring better (and bigger) tools such as floor jacks and chain hoists but my biggest challenge is time. I get to my place every other weekend and the time just flys by. I have been working on the house, cutting the grass, playing in the woods, hunting season is here, etc. .. I watched a video of a teenage girl replacing the clutch in an older Farmall Cub. She did it in 15 minutes while wearing a white outfit and did not even get dirty..I would have spent all day and got covered in grease...she is amazing. But she was in a large garage with all kinds of tools and equipment..plus she knew exactly what to do and had help from her mother. I am usually there alone with no helpers. Sounds like I need to take her to the local garage for this job after I cut the grass one last time. Thanks again!

darryljs 10-05-2016 08:11 PM

Why would you have to split a 154 to replace gears or shift forks. I replaced gears , complete clutch and drive shaft without splitting. Didn't have any trouble doing it without splitting.

cgmiller 10-18-2016 04:50 PM

I got to mow the yard this weekend and actually spend some time on the tractor. It definitely has an issue with it popping out of 1st and reverse, but if I hold the lever in position it stays, but that is not practical. I mowed the yard in 2nd gear and learned to feather the clutch a little up the hill to keep the engine from bogging down. I did see some oil on the mower deck when I was done and it looked like engine oil, so when I take her down the road to get the clutch issue dealt with that will get added to the list and I should probably have the service guys change all of the fluids while they have her, this way next year she will be ready for anything and I have a little comfort that everything was done properly. She felt much different than my Craftsman mower as I did not feel like I was sliding out of the seat on the slopes and with some practice I should be able to get close to the house, trees and barn and may not need the riding mower in the end.

Randy Littrell 10-21-2016 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgmiller (Post 396562)
I got to mow the yard this weekend and actually spend some time on the tractor. It definitely has an issue with it popping out of 1st and reverse, but if I hold the lever in position it stays, but that is not practical. I mowed the yard in 2nd gear and learned to feather the clutch a little up the hill to keep the engine from bogging down. I did see some oil on the mower deck when I was done and it looked like engine oil, so when I take her down the road to get the clutch issue dealt with that will get added to the list and I should probably have the service guys change all of the fluids while they have her, this way next year she will be ready for anything and I have a little comfort that everything was done properly. She felt much different than my Craftsman mower as I did not feel like I was sliding out of the seat on the slopes and with some practice I should be able to get close to the house, trees and barn and may not need the riding mower in the end.



Sounds like a good idea. The tranny popping out of 1st and reverse is a problem with the tranny, not the clutch. Don't want a mechanic to throw a clutch in it and still have the same problem when done.




Randy

cgmiller 10-28-2016 01:39 PM

I am planning on taking my tractor down the road to the local garage tomorrow to get the "shift fork" issue dealt with. I am also going to have them change the engine oil and any other "oil change" that should be done since I have no previous maintenance information on the tractor. I did notice an oil leak when I mowed the grass 2 weeks ago, so that needs to get looked at as well. Cant be messing up the new paint job I am going to give the mower deck...anything else I should have them do while they have it?

cgmiller 11-03-2016 08:49 PM

I talked to the mechanics working on my tractor today. Made the right decision taking it to a professional. The found the broken shift fork..problem is the po tried to weld it to fix it. He also welded someone on the shaft, which is broken. They also said the clutch break was broken and fell apart when they removed it. Hamilton Bob was able to hook them up with some of the parts, but the shaft is not available...but they think they can fix it...

J-Mech 11-04-2016 10:39 AM

What shaft is broken? The shifter shaft? They are available in aftermarket, or you can find them used all over ebay. One is still available new OEM!

cgmiller 11-04-2016 04:33 PM

Not sure...either way sounds like something that I could not fix on my own and since I am only at my farm every other weekend, it would take me all winter. Kind of surprised since the tractor ran well and operated normally when I held the shift lever in the 1st or reverse position and when in 2nd gear I mowed for an hour with little issue..the unit bogged down and stalled a few times until I started feathering the clutch pedal. I did notice when in 1st gear, depressing the clutch pedal did not stop the tractor from moving forward. I had to step on the brake pedal to actually stop it from moving forward...hopefully I can pick it up next weekend..

Lanceskene 11-04-2016 09:26 PM

I have 3 of those trannys now so I might have parts if they cant fix/find what they need. ;)

cgmiller 11-29-2016 09:50 PM

I stopped in at the garage on Saturday. The repair to the tranny is complete including removal of some broken off gear teeth. None of the gears are missing teeth, so the damaged gear must have been replaced. The shaft that the shift fork is on was broken and that was what the previous owner had welded. The mechanic had a new shaft made (it is a small shaft about 3 inches long and 5/16" diameter. The mechanic told me that someone must have tried to shift the gears while moving quickly and broke the teeth and the shaft. He was waiting for a new rear main seal to fix the engine oil leak and then he will be done.

J-Mech 11-29-2016 10:05 PM

Pretty sure the shift rails are longer than 3".
Hope it didn't cost much. MWSC sells new shift rails in pairs for $26. Plus finding a used one is about as simple as 1 phone call.

This place is slow. Been in there a month....

cgmiller 11-30-2016 09:47 PM

The broken piece he showed me fit in the palm of his hand..the installed piece in the transmission was much longer..the garage I used may not be aware of the best places to get parts...but they did call Hamilton Bob for something and also knew about Steiners...I will find out in a week or so how much it all cost...still gonna probably only be a drop in the hat compared to what I had to do to the last boat I bought..a new transom was about 8 grand...cant possibly be anything like that...I hope...

cgmiller 12-23-2016 08:25 PM

I picked up my tractor last weekend in an early winter snow storm. they replaced the shift fork and clutch pack assembly, which fell apart when they removed it, they had a replacement shaft made for the shift fork and changed the rear main seal, which was leaking oil. the mechanic told me he thinks someone tried to shift gears at a high speed and sheared off gear teeth as he found the teeth in the bottom of the tranny. total bill was $960 ..$560 for labor and the rest for parts,,,i had a heck of a time trying to get up my driveway in the snow....the turf tires are no good in the snow and the rear end is not a true positraction....at times only 1 tire would spin....

J-Mech 12-23-2016 08:35 PM

Uh, no, it doesn't have a "posi" rear end. No tractor does. They are all open differentials. Some have a diff lock, but not Lo-Boy's...

Whew. $960. I don't have that in mine, and it didn't run or even have a cluch in it when I bought it. At least it's home.

cgmiller 12-24-2016 07:59 PM

yeah well..it was a big bill but if I tried to fix it myself it would have been apart in my barn for 6 months since I am only there every other weekend...heck the first repair I had to do to the last boat I bought cost me about 14 grand...so I am way ahead of my typical toy experiences...merry Christmas....

cgmiller 01-08-2017 11:44 AM

I got to play with the tractor a little last weekend. I fixed the plow that came with it and got it mounted onto the tractor. I spent about 20 minutes trying to spread out a pile of stone that has been sitting in my driveway for a year now...it went better than using a rake...cut it short as I wanted to cut some firewood before it got dark..I did notice that the tranny is really loud now in 1st gear...I did not notice that in the fall when I was running the tractor..it sounds much different in 2nd gear...don't know if that is the sign of an issue or not...need to make some adjustments to the plow..it needs to be wider than the front tires so the tires don't ride up on the stuff I am trying to spread..more like a bulldozer..might give me a reason to buy a little mig welder...Happy New Year!

sawdustdad 01-08-2017 03:42 PM

cg, glad you got it fixed. Sometimes it makes perfect sense to defer to the pros when time is short. I've done it many times and due to lack of interest, that's how I handle most automotive repairs.

I've wanted a Lo Boy for many years. Just don't have the room to keep one. Looked at a couple, almost fell for one two years ago. Now with retirement looming and our planned property downsizing, I'd have almost no use for one, to be honest, other than for show or to mess with.

cgmiller 02-14-2017 08:43 PM

I have played with the tractor a few times since I got it back from the mechanic and it is noticeably LOUD in 1st gear....any thoughts?

J-Mech 02-14-2017 08:46 PM

It's normal. Just how that trans and final drive is. It's all straight cut gears. The trans speed is fast and that is just how straight cut gears are..... noisy.

cgmiller 02-18-2017 09:21 PM

I did not notice it before and I drove around in 1st gear a few times holding down the shift handle..in second gear its nice and quiet..took it out for a little ride today....

Lanceskene 02-18-2017 09:39 PM

Ive only ever driven two Loboys but both trannys are very quiet.

cadzag72 02-24-2017 07:56 PM

Just a thought on your noisy first gear, perhaps the gear on the broken shaft developed an unusual wear pattern. Now that it's in the right place, the mating surfaces aren't the same as they were before the repair, so that might cause your noise. My lo-boy has noisy final drives but my tranny gears are quiet. It is true that straight cut gears are noisier, you should hear my JD 420 in first gear!

J-Mech 02-24-2017 09:38 PM

There were gears replaced in the trans. If first was one, it will have to wear in. It would have no wear pattern, and the mate to it would. That would cause noise.

drglinski 02-25-2017 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech (Post 394699)
Lance, I agree with you. They are simple..... but they are much larger than a garden tractor. If you don't have a decent garage with a fairly large jack, jack stands, and some kind of a crane or splitting stand.... It's just a bit more than the average do-it-yourselfer has at home to work with. It's not the complexity so much as the size. :beerchug:

I can split a 100HP tractor in a couple hours. I'd honestly rather do that than split a Lo-Boy.:biggrin2: They just aren't as "friendly" to work on.

What you mean I shouldn't just rely on my back to split one of these? :bigthink:

cgmiller 05-02-2017 09:47 PM

I am glad to report that I have cut the grass 2x now that I have the tractor back and repaired. With ear plugs in I am not bothered about the loud sound from the tranny and with the blades spinning and the throttle up I don't hear the loud gear noise...and it is only taking me half the time to cut the front lawn with the bigger mower deck..

cgmiller 08-08-2018 10:11 PM

Reaching out again to the experts. By the end of the mowing season last year I had to take the tractor back to the mechanic to get then clutch adjusted as I was having trouble getting it into gear and dirt in the carb was preventing it from running at low idle. I am now having the same issue. I know that I need to install an inline fuel filter. Bought one from Hamilton Bob but have not gotten around to it yet. It is paining me to jam the tractor in gear to mow the yard. Does anyone have simple step by step on adjusting the clutch? I don't want to wait 2 more months to take it in for service as I have to wait until the mechanic is finished fixing the farmers hay equipment.

J-Mech 08-08-2018 10:15 PM

If the tractor has a sediment bowl, and the screen is still in it, you don't need an inline fuel filter. Clean the sediment bowl, check the screen, drain the carb and see what that does.

Take the tunnel cover off. If you can't see how the clutch adjusts, just wait on the mechanic. It's pretty obvious. Unless you are hard on a clutch, it shouldn't need adjusted this often. How often do you shift this thing? You don't rest your foot on the clutch while driving it do you?

Here is a link to the repair manual(s):
http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/P...um=&doSearch=Y

olds45512 08-08-2018 10:27 PM

We had a ford tractor that the clutch kept going out of adjustment, we adjusted it 4 times over 3 months and then finally it stopped working entirely, turned out that the pin holding the clutch fork to the pedal shaft had been slowly sheering off.

J-Mech 08-08-2018 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olds45512 (Post 463236)
We had a ford tractor that the clutch kept going out of adjustment, we adjusted it 4 times over 3 months and then finally it stopped working entirely, turned out that the pin holding the clutch fork to the pedal shaft had been slowly sheering off.

Lo-Boy clutch works pretty much the same way as a cadet. Not saying it couldn't be something like that... but it uses a rod set up like a cadet..... just backwards, because the clutch is on the transmission.

olds45512 08-08-2018 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mech (Post 463237)
Lo-Boy clutch works pretty much the same way as a cadet. Not saying it couldn't be something like that... but it uses a rod set up like a cadet..... just backwards, because the clutch is on the transmission.

I assumed it was more like a tractor clutch. I've never worked on a Lo-Boy trans before.

J-Mech 08-08-2018 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olds45512 (Post 463240)
I assumed it was more like a tractor clutch. I've never worked on a Lo-Boy trans before.

They are weird. Mix between a tractor clutch and a CC clutch.... and some elements of a truck clutch, like the clutch brake. They're altogether different, but really simple. Biggest oddity is the location, on the trans input shaft.

DeltaCub 08-09-2018 02:31 AM

The 154s and 185s have the same goofy clutch setup like Jon said mounted at the input end of the transmission. Now this setup uses two pucks about 1/2" in diameter to stop the shaft from spinning when the clutch pedal is depressed. They wear out along with everything else. Hamilton Bob has most of the parts and I highly recommend replacing just about everything in that setup. Plan on spending some serious money. Also the pedal linkage wears away too and that requires some welding and fitting skills to get all of the slop out of the linkage. Not a hopeless situation....just expensive!


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