CC LT46 XT1 Enduro Safety switches !!
 

,Cub Cadet XT1 LT46
Model: 13APA1CT056
Serial: 1J187H20076 Manufactured: 2017
Engine: Kohler 22HP 7000 series
Blades are manually engaged by lever

The above described Cub Cadet lawn tractor was bought new by my brother-in-law in 2017. The mower has been unused for mowing since 2022 when he encountered problems with the deck and a new 2022 Cub Cadet was purchased. The 2017 model has been used regularly for towing small trailers around his property. Within the last year, he began to experience starting issues with the 2017 CC which led him to replace a starter solenoid on 2 occasions (knowing how hard these are to change out he must love pain ?). As he recalls, he has replaced the ignition switch twice (once recently) and he has also replaced the seat switch. According to him, the tractor has been cranking fine up until recently when he installed a used mower deck. For about a month, he has not been able to use the mower because with him sitting in the seat, with the brake engaged and the engine running, when any attempt is made to engage the PTO/mower blades, the engine dies. Restarting the engine and attempting to engage the PTO again results in the same issue.

I have offered to help him troubleshoot this issue and have found it has been a very common and frustrating problem for many tractor owners. I for one do fairly well with the routine maintenance, decks and front end repair, but solving electrical problems really isn’t something I look forward to ,,, it’s easy to change out a part, test for the problem and if no improvement, order the next part. I have been watching YouTube videos, googling, and forum browsing looking for people having the same problem; but, though there are many out there, the solutions found varied from battery, starter solenoid, switch, and any of 5 safety switches.

My plan is to find the correct wiring schematic for my model (having a problem there thus far) and to follow a basic troubleshooting guide I discovered online in order to isolate the culprit. I am sure I’ll be checking in soon to ask for your assistance in this.

Thanks again for allowing me to join this forum.

Here is a link to XT1 wire diagrams....

https://pandpsmallengines.com/pages/...det-xt1-wiring

but my first looksee would be to make sure that some strain is not killing the engine
such as a frozen PTO bearing or mower deck bind.

I appreciate your sharing the link Ironman, I'll check it out . As for the binding PTO, I failed to mention that my tractor has a manually engage lever to the right of the seat next to the deck lift lever. I checked the action of the linkage and nothing seems to be binding and when it is fully engaged, the belt doesn't seem overly tight so as to put pressure on the engine.

Update: found what appears to be the appropriate schematic. Got bad storms rolling through today but I'll begin to compare and trace out the wiring as soon as I can.

Schematic for 2017 Cub Cadet XT1
 

Started trying to follow the wiring diagram downloaded from P and P small engines today. Verified each point on the schematic noting that the wires were all connected with the wire color described and checking their continuity as well as the action of the switches. Checked the battery connections for good wiring and connections, shows charge at 12.99 volts. So far nothing really stands out but I do have a question about a switch shown on the wiring diagram. Other than the seat switch, parking brake switch, reverse switch, and PTO switch, there is one other switch labeled as "Park Switch" It has only two sets of pins with wires going to only one set, a common ground /grn wire coming in and a brn wire exiting and going to pin #2 "Reset" on the Reverse Mow Control Module. I searched under the frame and in the vicinity of the MCR behind the dash but didn't see anything. Shared file attached.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11kp...ew?usp=sharing

Can someone tell me where it is located and what the function is?

Thanks
David

Update on last post
 

Hi guys

I finally located the Park Brake switch mentioned in my last post. It is a normally open switch activated when you apply the parking brake and it triggers a response (kills the engine) when you try to activate the blades while the parking brake is applied. It is up high above the brake interlock switch and just beneath the gas tank. I will have to remove the gas tank to expose it and in order to accomplish that, I must first remove the panels enclosing the dash area.

Also discovered today:

The 2 wires connecting the Reverse switch both have nicks where it appears they got caught up in the transmission cooling fan.

The white connector, near the starter that supplies the wiring from the main harness to the flywheel area, somehow received damage to the extent that one of the pins in the connector was pulled from the male side of the plug and is still connected to the female side. Is there a way to repair those pins without having to purchase a new wiring harness, or is it okay to isolate the wires effected and splice those wires?

Lastly, I found a grn (ground wire) with a spade connector attached just dangling down in the area of the blower area of the engine. It's on your left if your seated in the seat. Gotta investigate that.

Just continuing to clean up questionable items before I get back to my original problem with the PTO.

Check in later.

David

Just a quick heads up, looks like my parts ordered from Cub Cadet will be arriving on the 23rd of this month. Hopefully, I"ll be putting everything back together and start checking for results before the weekend.

More later
:bigthink:

Well, despite identifying and correcting several problems, seems I'm back to square 1
 

All my parts arrived on the 23rd and after a few hrs work I have managed to repair or replace faulty wiring and bad /damaged connectors. My Cub fired right up and seems to run great; BUT, if I even barely try to engage the PTO lever, the engine dies.

I thought I had located the culprit in the Parking Brake switch which was confirmed bad, but it wasn't the cause. I am so frustrated that right now I haven't a clue as to where I should look now. I know it is something so obvious!

I could really use some fresh ideas right now.

Cub Cadet XT1 LT46
Model: 13APA1CT056
Serial: 1J187H20076 Manufactured: 2017
Engine: Kohler 22HP 7000 series
Blades are manually engaged by lever and I have removed the blade deck to eliminate load on the battery. The battery is at 12.9 volts and with engine running shows a charge of 14.1 volts.

Thank you.

The PTO switch (#15 in the picture) has two sets of contacts.
One set is normally open (NO), the other is normally closed (NC).
NO and NC are conditions you have when the switch is at rest,
in other words not operated (plunger not depressed)

When you have the PTO lever in the OFF position, it depresses the plunger.
The NO contacts are for the starting circuit, (i.e. voltage path to the starter solenoid)
With the PTO lever OFF, the plunger is depressed, the NO contacts are closed, and you can start your engine. If you try to start the engine with the PTO lever NOT OFF the NO contacts will be open and starter won't engage.

The other set of contacts (NC) provide the safety path in conjunction with the brake switch, seat switch, and RMC module. So when the PTO is OFF, the plunger is depressed and the, NC contacts are open and mower runs fine. When you move the PTO lever the NC contacts close and kills the motor.

The correct operation to kill the motor is to apply ground to the magneto.
That is done in a number of ways such as the key, brake, and seat switches, plus the RMC module.

In your case everything works fine until you move the PTO lever. Therefore I would conclude that a ground is being applied to one of the NC contacts and when you move the lever the plunger raises, contacts close and the ground is applied to the magneto and the engine dies.

I would start at the PTO switch connector and look for ground on one of the NC leads and try to trace it back to origin.
I'd be guessing but I'd suspect that it's coming from the RMC.

Ironman, I really appreciate your response. I literally was holding the PTO safety switch in my hand when I had the urge to check in.

Couple of newbie questions ... 1. Should I leave all safety switches in their normally default conditions, or should I have someone sit on the seat with the brake applied and the PTO not engaged? 2. Battery disconnected or connected? I know that the RMC module is included with the key switch which was replaced just before I started to troubleshoot this mower.

I will follow your suggestions and try to keep in contact with any progress.

Thanks
David

In order to troubleshoot an electrical problem you have to figuire out what it's supposed to do when it is working correctly, then look for whats wrong.
In your case, everything is working right except when you move the PTO lever.
The PTO switch, which is operated by the PTO lever, is meant to disable starting the engine unless:
A. The operator is in the seat.
B. The break pedal is engaged.
C. The PTO lever is in the OFF position.

Your PTO switch has two functions:
1. Complete a circuit to allow the key switch to operate the starter solenoid,,,,and
2. Kill the engine if there is not and operator in the seat and the break is not set.
The engine gets killed by applying a ground to the engines magneto coil. (That is what actually happens when you turn the key to OFF).

The picture below is your PTO switch from your wire diagram.
The picture shows the switch in the un-operated position, in other words PTO is ON.
When your PTO lever is in the OFF position, the switch is operated (i.e. plunger depressed).
If the PTO is OFF (as when you want to start the tractor) pins C (60) and E (70) make contact, thus orange/black and orange/white are connected.
Orange/black comes from the brake switch, which when depressed is connected to the Start lug on the key switch.
Orange/white goes to the small lug on the starter solenoid. Engine starts, so all that is working fine.

Looking at the picture and the wire diagram, the other half of the PTO switch has pin B (30E) yellow, and pin D (45C) yellow/red, which are open (not connected)
when the PTO lever is in the OFF position, so there is no ground on the magneto and the engine starts.
In your case, when you move the PTO lever to ON, the engine dies, obviously because of the operation of the PTO switch.
So assumption has to be that the PTO switch is working fine but there is a ground coming from somewhere that kills the magneto when that ground should not be there.
So the yellow or yellow/red wires must lead to the culprit.

I'd suggest troubleshooting like this:
1. Remove the connector plug from the PTO switch.
2. Set your parking brake on.
3. Somehow activate your seat switch as if you were seated.
4. Turn you key switch to RUN position. (not to start nor try to start)
5. Set your VOM to ohms (R1) and connect one lead to your battery neg terminal (ground).
6. With the other meter lead probe into the connector plug for the yellow and yellow/red terminals and look for continuity to ground.

Report back what you see and we will continue...

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Ironman. I spent the day isolating each of the wiring harnesses beginning with the PTO and progressing to the seat switch, reverse switch, dash harness (ignition switch, parking brake switch, brake pedal switch and RMC ). Once one length of the harness was disconnected I exposed the entire length cleaning the harness wires and plugs and looking for damaged, crimped, or loose areas. I did a continuity check on each individual wire looking for shorts opens and grounds, I found absolutely nothing suspicious. I did isolate the yellow wire as being connected to the magneto wires coming from the ignition coils. The white wires terminate in the white plug connection found next to the starter and the connection to the yellow wire begins there and attaches at the ignition switch.

I have paused for today, but will get back at it in the am. I have just a short section of harness to finish up and then I will beging putting everything back together. I will then begin the troubleshooting schedule you shared with me today. Wish me luck.

David

I have my mower put back together with the exception of replacing the battery for troubleshooting ease of access. Also the seat switch was removed outside the seat but is installed to the seat switch harness and the plunger is depressed.

I removed the plug to the PTO switch, turned the ignition switch to run (position 3), and set the parking brake.

With my meter set to 1.0, I connected the common probe to the battery ground location on the frame (verified good).

Probing the the Yellow wire on the PTO connector, I got a reading of 0.3 ohms

Probing the Yellow/Red wire I got a reading of 0.L (infinity)

I'll leave everything as is until I hear more from you

Thanks,

David

Nice write up Ironman.

Could there be an issue with the reverse switch (machine thinks it's in reverse)? I'm not familiar with this model but is there a reverse mow switch? If there is can you activate that and then engage the pto and see if the engine dies.

OK, since infinity is open and that is what you have on the yellow/red we will assume for the time being that yellow/red is good.

Following the yellow wire, the diagram shows it leading to three connections:
1. The brake switch,
2. The key switch.
3. The magneto coil on the engine (through the engine connector plug shown in green block))

Proper operation would kill a running engine by
A. Applying ground to the magneto coil by turning the key switch to the off position.
or
B. Picking up a frame ground through a combination of closed contacts in the seat and brake switches.

Since in your test you have the key switch in the run position, the brake is set, and the seat switch is operated,
we will assume the .3 ohms you read is coming through the magneto coils from the engine block, which would be normal.

So, to verify that, unplug the engine connector from the wire harness, repeat the testing as you did above, and give report.

The drawing does show one, we'll see where things lead.

Ironman, I do apologize for taking awhile to reply.

I left everything as it was last night so I went out and turned on my meter and decided to recheck my last readings before moving on. I could not believe what I saw! The yellow/red now shows "0 ohms" and the yellow wire shows "0.L ohms". I double checked ignition in run, park brakes on, seat button depressed and I even changed to another meter. These last readings appear to be correct. The only thing left is that I erred when I documented my readings.

I went on to perform the check with the engine harness disconnected and the readings remain

yellow = infinity
yellow red = 0.0

I really appreciate your patience. I will not move on until I hear from you.

One of us is confused, maybe both.

Post #12 you say yellow .3 ohms,
yellow/red infinity

Post #16 you say yellow infinity
yellow/red 0.0 ohms

Which is zero ohms and/or do you have a test lamp?

I am beginning to think I'm having a senior breakdown. To just be absolutely sure allow me to step out to the shop and put the volt meter on it one more time using the guidelines you gave me. Back in about 15 min.

David

I am getting a reading of:

yellow wire = infinity

yellow / red wire = 0.0 to 0.3 ohms


David

OK, thats a whole different ball game.

The yellow/red comes into the PTO switch from two different places.
1. The RMC Module
2. The seat switch.

The the mating contact point of the seat switch picks up chassis ground (a green wire I believe).
Correct operation is: You are in the seat, the contacts are open, engines running.
Stand up, contacts close, ground is applied to magneto, engine dies.

You would think that pulling the connector off the switch would eliminate the switch contacts and allow you to avoid the frustration
of killing the engine every time you hit a bump and bounce out of the seat.
EXCEPT, Big Brother is one step ahead of you and invented a plug that shorts all the wires in the plug together if you pull it off the switch.
Thus disabling your ability to disable a safety feature.

So likely either you seat switch or plug is shorted, but to make sure lets pull the wire connector off the back of the RMC.
Then check yellow/red for ground and report.
If it's still there, at least we know it's not your RMC causing it

Okay,

While I was away I decided to try and rule out the RMC module by unplugging it and probing the PTO plug yellow/red wire under the same conditions you laid out for me earlier. The probe read 0.3 ohms which I believe would let the RMC off the hook.

I just removed the seat switch harness and tested the yellow/red wire in the PTO end harness and it read 0.L ohms with the brake on, switch in run position and seat/pto switch disconnected.

BTW I ordered the Seat Switch and a connector made for MTD but it looks like what I've got, should be here in a couple of days. :GoodLuck: with that!

OK, now that our troubleshooting looks to have isolated the problem the situation leads to this....
As I said up up above, the seat switch connector has a built in foolproof system that is not totally foolproof.
I could have presented this in the beginning but I wanted to make sure everything else was eliminated.
Watch these videos and you will understand the big picture.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxUc5O7MPkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB7E9RErCDg&t=6s

Yeah, I kinda knew where this would lead if the seat switch was the culprit. Because the seat switch connector was already a problem in that the retainer clip was broken and a tight connection may be affected by vibration etc, I was already shopping around for a replacement. The owner of the mower wants to retain the safety functions. Feel free to weigh in here if you know of OEM parts that might help to achieve this.

Problem is, I can find the replacement connector/cable for MTD #725-05277, and it shows compatibility with other mowers; but none are shown compatible with Cub Cadet. It looks very similar to my connector. According to the sales reps, you must purchase the entire wiring harness. ($194) Well you and I know that's not about to happen. We're talking about a plug and 3 wires with crimp connectors. The actual seat switch connector is what will determine if it will meet the safety standards. We just need to find somebody who knows somebody.

Anyhow, that's for me to work out and once I get that done, I can put all the details in order (install battery, clean tie and secure wiring, and mount the blade deck. Then it's gonna be "burn some grass!!"

Assuming we have reached the end to this affair, I want to sincerely thank you, Ironman, and others on the side who have helped me get this Cub Cadet back on track. I'll post again when I finally feel all is done.

Thanks all, David

To be clear....
The purpose of the shorting clip that they remove from connector plug in the video,
is to prevent people from operating the tractor with the connector plug UNPLUGGED.

If the clip is removed and plugged back onto the switch, and the switch is good, it will continue to provide safety functions just as it did before.

Understood.

I went ahead and connected the seat switch wiring harness to the switch and, after installing the battery and mower deck, I took the tractor for a test drive. Everything seems to function properly except one safety issue was found.

While I'm cutting grass; I am able to continue cutting when the reverse pedal is depressed without having to use the Reverse Mow Control. Could be a result of removing the metal strip in the connector or I may have a secondary problem involving the RMC. I'm expecting the new switch/connector tomorrow so I will likely go ahead and replace them and see if that takes care of it. The mower owner doesn't seem to object to leaving things as they are.

My schedule is a little tight right now for the 1st couple of weeks of May so it may be after the middle of May before I get back to it.

Again thank you Ironman and others for weighing in on this problem. I have really learned so much about how to use the wiring diagrams and to follow circuits one by one until isolating the problem.

David :beerchug: