need help w/ rockshaft + hydraulics
 

I am making an attempt at building a 189 from an 1860 frame and engine. I have all of the sheet metal mostly fitted, nothing completly attached but so far it looks as if it will all work. I have a few questions about fit on some areas.
1) Of course the 1860 didn't have hydraulic lift.
I looked at the parts for an 1862 and a 2082. The lift cylinder is the same on all of the supers and cyclops so that is one problem solved. The one I am stumped on is the rockshaft. The part #s are different on these but would any one of them work ok. Why would the rockshaft be different between the supers and the regular cyclops GT? below are copies of the parts sheet.

2) I am entertaining the idea of using super tires and rims. What would I have to do to get the room I need under the fenders? Could I just put in spacers to raise it an inch or two? If so, I would have to space everything, tunnel cover, tower, front grille. What are your thoughts on this? Could I get away with 24x12x12 without the lifted fenders? And I am not sure about the front rims. What size are they on a super? (I just sold my 982 today and this idea came after it was gone so I can't just go measure one)

2082 diagram
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...aniac/2082.png

1862 diagram
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...aniac/1862.png

I guess I'll go ahead and post some pictures. I was hesitant to post these but I will just in case it will help you figure out some things I may need to do. You may ask, Why would he do this? Well, I love my 149 and always wanted a 169. I bought this 1860 mainly for the front axle but it ran so good I wanted to use the engine in an 1872 if I could find one. I got to looking at it and the 149 parts tractor I have and started measuring and then before you know it I had the fender off and the fuel tank pulled. The fender pan fit so I kept going. I liked the hydro lever on the right side of the steering wheel so I am leaving that and the throtle in the same area. I will have to make a custom dash cover (aluminum) to match this new stuff.
I may be able to pull this off and maybe not but it is my first attempt at a custom build.
Notice in the pictures, the tower was a good bit taller than the one from the 149.

The super rockshaft would fit in the frame but wouldn't lift any front mounted implements correctly. Any 82 series GT rockshaft and cylinder will work.

Thanks Matt, would the GT rockshaft operate a cat 0 hitch? How about the tire fitment I talked about? How would you address this issue?

I have a rockshaft from a 1863 (cyclopes) I would be willing to part with. It is out and disassembled. It has the (bushing caps ?) for were it goes through the frame also. All you really need to do to fit the 26x12x12's is space the fender pan up a little. Or find a super battery box, They are taller.

Yes, it will. It would probably be easiest to just space up the fenders with some 1" square tubing or something if you are going to put larger tires on it.

If you run an 82 series set up it will have plenty or power to use a cat-0 set up. I knocked the left side rockshaft bushing loose a while back, I welded it back up along with the lock out nut that had fell off when I installed it in the begining. I forgot to pull the lockout bolt back out when I mowed and I tore the depth stop knob off when I ran the deck down!

As far as the tires, I spaced my fenders with 3 standard washers per fender bolt, which gave me about 3/4" between the fender and top of the 26x12x12's..

I will add another idea if you run an 82 series lift, and that is ditch the spirol pins in the rockshaft with grade 5 or 8 bolts and nylon lock nuts. I took me 15 minutes to completely pull the rockshaft and lift back out to do repairs this last time..

I got some time yeterday to mount the 26x12x12 tires on my GT rims using two tire tools/spoons and a vice grip. They fit the tractor pretty good and one inch is all I will have to raise it. I don't have a set of supers yet and still entertaining the idea of making my own. I will have to raise everything to keep the original lines. I'll likely weld on a piece of 1" tubing to the top of the frame and grind it down to look like the frame is one piece and not cobbled together. I don't have any front wheels yet but I did turn the GT fronts around to make a wider stance just to see about what it would look like.

I'm mainly waiting until I can get all the hyraulic lift parts so I can fit them and see if I can use the 149's lift lever or if I will have to go with an 82 series lift handle. I now know that I need a rockshaft from an 82 series. Will the control valve from a 149 operate the lift cylinder from an 82 series or cylclops, if it will I know I can use the original lift lever.
I think I have a name for it, 189 micro super or 189 MS for whatever it's worth. Oh well, it's fun and a good way to learn about other tractors in the process.

Nice work, Chip! :High5:

You can hook the 149 valve to the 82 series cylinder. You may need custom-length hoses.

BTW, this project is REALLY cool. I never would have thought you could get the dash on the frame, and I think I might try something like this if I ever wind up with another cyclops parts tractor. I really like my 82 series tractors, but I also owned an 86, 108, and 2 128s at one time, so I'm also partial to that style.

Looks good. I would call Patton, and see if he has a battery box and tunnel cover from a super. Then you wont have to weld on the frame and it would like factory. The tunnel cover will be to long , but I think if you cut the extra from the front it would fit awesome. It would also fill the gap in on the fender pan from raising it up.

If you need a rockshaft let me know.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

That helps a lot, I can handle the hoses.

That sounds like a good plan. I will have to get the dimensions to make sure but it would be easier than welding and then getting a good finished surface to paint. All I would have to do is raise the tower. Man, I sold that 982 to soon. I could have pulled parts off it to test fit it all. Oh well.

Looking real good Chip! I'm having rear tire envy! Those look awesome!

Hi all. New member here. When I seen the pics of cub 149's Cyclops conversion I had to post a comment. It reminds me of the 109 I had about 25 years ago. I modified the frame to look like a 782 and installed a KT17 series 1 in it. The engine was built from 2 that I bought from a local JD dealer that had blown up. I added a hyd lift using a small add on hyd pump and a lift cylinder and valve from a scrapped CC. Used it to mow grass and blow snow and till the garden for 5 years. It was an animal. I had to trade it in on a 1862 because the wife would not drive it as it did not have power steering. Great job on the conversion. looking forward to the finished job. I might have to build another one as I have a spare KT17 on the shelf.
Farmallfred

I hope to get some time on this Fri and Sat. I have been staring, walking around, shifting, measuring, etc... trying to figure out just how I will make some things work. In the process I keep looking at the aluminum rear. It needs an axle seal as it is leaking. I would like to have a cast iron rear in it. I know this has been discused on here but I would like to have a simple explanation on what I need to do. Lets start with some basic questions. I've never done rearends so this will be rearend 101 -100.5 :HeadScratch:
1) Will a CI rear from a 149, 1450, etc... work without changing the gears in the case?
2) Since I have the 26x12 tires on, should I be looking for super rear gears or will the GT gears do the job?
3) I am assuming the super is geared differently for the larger tires?

The super rear is geared differently so that the tractor's ground speed is similar to that of the GTs, so you'll gain speed and lose some torque, but I don't think I'd worry about that. The CI rear will work; HOWEVER...

I think I'd stick with the aluminum rear on account of the stronger axles. I think you may be liable to twist off the coarse-spline axles in the iron rear by putting 18 hp through it with 26-12-12 tires. If you aren't going to do any ground-engaging work with it, there's probably nothing to worry about, but if you are, I'd just leave it be.

I will be doing all ground engaging work with this one. Your advice is noted but...
I have seen discusions on putting the inards from the aluminum into the CI, would this work with what I have? I kinda want to keep it as original to a 149/189 as possible. Of course, once I get a 3pt hooked up you wouldn't be able to see the CI anyway but still...
What are your thoughts on this?

You can easily do that with the older aluminum rears that were used through 1989. They have 1" diameter axles just like the CI rears. The axles in your cyclops rear are ~1 3/16", so you'd need to have the axle tubes bored for larger bearings and seals.

Thanks Matt, duly noted and food for thought.

OK, I got my lift cylinder and rockshaft and am in the process of installing it. Looking at the parts diagram I am missing a part. Part #5. I am assuming this plate has the pin attached to it that goes through the lift cylinder and pin #4 is what the rockshaft rests against in the float position. Is this correct? Can I not just use two seperate pins and leave out the plate? I can make one if I have to but just don't see the need.

http://cubcadetparts.arinet.com/Scri...&ilIF=P&ilRE=8

You can just use 2 pins, but I think the idea behind that piece is to allow you to easily disconnect the hydraulic cylinder from the rockshaft. If you use 2 clevis pins, you will have a really hard time getting the cotter keys in the back side of them.

I have found a power steering unit from a 2082 that I would like to put on this 1860/189. Is there anything different about the front axle other than the steering arm that would not work? As far as the steering arm goes, I would imagine the hole is just closer to the wheel so I should be able to drill a new hole to match up with the cylinder? I am also getting a set of front super rims, they will fit ok on the 1860 front axle? What do I need to know? I can get everything for the steering unit except the front axle and the dual spool valve. I figure I can just "T" into the lines on my hydraulic lines.

The 1860 steering knuckle *should* have both holes already. The 1862 I parted years ago did. If not, I think the cyclops service manual has a drawing in it you could scale and use to figure out where the other hole goes. The two-spool valve setup for a cyclops is weird and you would have a hard time making that work on here. There's a diagram in this manual that shows you how to hook up the PS correctly. You're going to have to fab some stuff for the column since the column tube is about 3" long. The frame mount for the cylinder is pretty different between the supers and the standard-frame GTs. I don't think the super one will work on a GT because the footrest is in the way. It'd be easy to make though.

Thanks Matt, I have never seen one in person so I don't even know how it is attached to the SGT. I had always assumed the shaft and valve body where fairly short and would be up inside the dash, but looking at some diagrams it appears the shaft is as long as a standard steering shaft and the valve/steering box ends up near the bottom of the frame? Right, wrong, sorta.........?

The actual steering box is very short and connects at the bottom. A long shaft connects to it and is connected to the box with a CV joint; the cyclops models have a tilt wheel, so that is how that is accomplished.

Thanks Matt, I have my hands full but it will get done. Trying to figure out placement of everything, etc..... Hope you keep an eye on this post as there will be more questions to come.

The PS and other parts should be here today so I can get started up on this again. Also, I miss quoted the donor tractor for these parts. They are from a 2072.
As far as a cat0 hitch, would I need one made for a SGT or a GT? I know I will need the shorter arm from the lift cylinder to the rockshaft, but are the lift arms on the hitch longer because of the larger rear tires? Would the rockshaft and plate be the same for both GT and SGT?

The SGT hitch is completely different because of the provision for a rear PTO, but you can put a GT hitch on an SGT with a shorter lift bar. There is enough adjustment range in the lower arms that I wouldn't think you'd have problems. On my 782D, I can just about make the lower arms drag on the ground if I want to.

I was thinking more on the lines of, are the lift arms long enough to get the implements out passed the back of the tires for good clearance? I understand the adjustment to get them lower to the ground, just concerned about the rear of the tires.

Would this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Yeah, it would have. I haven't seen one go that cheap in awhile. The lift arms are plenty long...and really, you're only adding 3" to the diameter of the tire, which isn't much.

New problem, I got the SGT front rims and tires today. I put the rims on and the hub is about .25 inches longer than the 1860 spindle. Will the spindles from a SGT fit into the front axle of the 1860? I was looking at the rim also, it looks like it could be put in a lathe and have that .25 inch taken off the hub to make it fit. Any ideas? I want to keep the 1860 axle since it sits lower than the SGT axle, keeps the lines straight on what I am making.

front wheels
 

I just got 2 rear axle hubs, wich allow 5bolt 12" wheels on front, the hubs are 3/4" shorter than spindle. not a problem to make spacer,am using skinny IH farmall front wheels. thanks for the rear fender clearence work,will install 27/10.50/ 12 rear Mud hogs on the diesel 1811d i'm building!