The 125 Winter Project
 

It's time to get started on the 125 as my winter time fun. Have run it
now for a couple years and have had good luck but it certainly is a bit tired.
Compression is pretty weak about 60 and she is starting to smoke some
etc etc.
The rear end leaks pretty good. Cork gasket I am sure and both
axle seals as well are quite gooey. There is a lot of gasket sealer in all
kinds of places from the previous owner so no telling where all this will
go.
I found a local machine shop who kinda reluctantly agreed to do the machine
work on the engine for me. I don't actually think he minds he just makes
his living doing big stuff, haul trucks and the like.
I pulled the head and the bore actually looked pretty good except one
big nasty scratch from top to bottom. Darn. First time inside one of these
narrow frame models. Always appreciate the input and all the good schooling
I get from you folks. Don't want to get far down the road before Christmas
as the Grandson will be here and we can explore together,

KenAttachment 109490

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Get the machine shop work done, get all of your parts needed. (Don't about the machinist at the shop that's being done at,
as long as he's doing his job). And have a great time chill'n with your grandson, it'll always be priceless regardless of the outcome.

Is the engine been apart by previous owner? Piston marked? Wondering if a bore will get that damage out?

Take the block and crank to the machinist before ordering the piston and rod. The machinist should tell you what you need. Get the parts into his hands before he does the machining.

This looks like a nice thread to follow along with. You remind me that I have a k241 sitting on the workbench waiting for the same thing :biggrin2:

Will work on getting the engine out and cleaned up for the machine shop
next few days. I will definitely get him to measure it all out before I order
any parts. Yesterday I started on it and next thing I know I have the
meter in my hand and I am tracing all the electrical to see what all goes
where. I am so easily distracted:biggrin2:. That is the beauty of no longer working
on the clock. Am a big fan of putzing along in no hurry.

Ken

Got the engine on the bench yesterday. In pondering getting into the machine
shop, am curious of you alls opinion. Have far down should a guy tear this
apart before getting it to him. Am just wanting to make sure he can do
his job most effectively. Just the tins and flywheel etc, or does a person
hand it to him with everything apart, crank, cam, valves etc all disassembled.
Been a long time since I did something this in depth. Last time was a
66 mustang and I would rather not mention how long ago that was. My
memory has slipped since then. Thanks

KenAttachment 109501

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I would advise taking it to an engine rebuild machine shop rather than “just” a machine shop. They know clearances and procedures and are set up to make a quick job of it. If the crank needs grinding, that is specialty work too, again the engine pro shop. Are you good to fit rod bearings? Valve seats and stem guides. Engine shop unless you want to do that too.

Which ever shop you use will want the block stripped.

Have fun and enjoy the time with you Apprentice.

Good advise.
Last one I did was an K341AQS and the machine shop bill was about $240.
I reassembled the engine myself.

PM me aid I will send you a PDF of the Kohler engine service manual.
Step by step walkthrough of dis and re-assembly of all components. A must have in my estimation.

Your rebuild kit, once you determine what size to order, will include all seals, gaskets, rod & piston plus new valves, I would also opt to the new guides for an extra $20.

All your machinist should need is the bare block, crank, piston and rod.
No need to bother him with any more parts than needed, less stuff to misplace and or loose.
You can deal with the head your self, just search this forum for that process, flattening a head with sandpaper and a flat surface.

He should have the capability to tank, bead blast and inspect the block for cracks etc as well as spec's etc. and be able to tell you what size kit to order.

Got my last kits from this seller on e-bay, look for him. https://www.ebay.com/usr/bakt4kids?_...p2047675.l2559
Be sure to follow his ordering instructions thoroughly.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the info all the way around. Looking around on
the site last night and ran across the K series service manual. Have read and
printed the chassis manual but never thought to print the one specific to the
engine, duh. If for some reason I can't get it to go I will for sure PM you
for the PDF. Thanks for that and the link to the kits. Off to do some printing.

Ken

I usually pull up the PDF on my laptop and have it in front of me in the shop to follow.
Pictures are much better in that than when printed as they lose all their detail.

After spending a few days out with the Black Powder gun it was time
to get back in the shop.
I got the engine 95% tore down and am real pleased with how she
looks on the inside. No big scratches on the crank no obvious damage.
Did not put the mic on anything but hope springs eternal.

Couple a questions for the group.
1) Is the dipstick tube just pressed in? Can you just tap it out from the inside
or twist on it or what? I didn't get to feisty with it till I knew.
2) Is the stop pin for the governor threaded? I assumed it was because it
has a phillips head on it but I can't get er loosened up. Will work on it
again tomorrow. Does the governor shaft get pulled out from the outside
or does it come out from inside the block?

thanks for the help. Hope you all are doing well and enjoying the
snow.:beerchug:

KenAttachment 109548

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I think the dipstick tube is pressed in but don't know for sure since I've never needed to remove one. The governor stop pin is indeed threaded, and the governor shaft comes out from the inside of the block, as because of its tab, cannot fit through the hole where the securing nut screws into.

and snow?? what snow? all we got here currently is rain! :biggrin2:

The stop pin can be a bit stubborn to remove, especially since it has a phillips head. A couple of quick, light raps on the screw head with a ball peen hammer shocked mine loose, and it threaded right out.

Don't lose the copper gasket under that screw, I do not think it is included in the gasket set.

And don't lose the shim BEHIND the governor itself when removing it.
It is the first thing in when starting re-assembly and the last thing out.

Also, do not lose the shims from the Cam shaft pin and be sure and remove it the right way as instructed in the manual as it only goes in and out ONE way.

Lastly, static time the engine when re-assembled while it's on the bench.

Good luck!

Good call Rusty. Here I was wrestling with that Phillips afraid I was gonna
strip it out. Tap Tap and here it comes not problem. Thanks
I had read about the shims before I pulled it apart but was grateful for
the reminder. I am a guy who learns by repetition for sure. And a good
picture or drawing for sure. Thanks

Ken

Am sure having a swell time learning on this project. Today I was able
figure out how the ACR works on these cam shafts. I had a vague idea
but it sure helps to have one on the bench to play with. Pretty cool.

Put the mic to a whole bunch of stuff. It is really good shape I believe.
Except for that one scratch in the cylinder. And the whack to the top
of the piston somewhere down the line. Pretty good idea that my compression
and smoking issue was the top ring that was broken.

In looking at the driveshaft the hole for the pin is pretty beat up.
Previous guy had hose clamp around it. Got it hand it to him, it worked.
Figuring it means a new drive shaft, is that true?

KenAttachment 109559

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Yep! You need a new one for sure!
And maybe even a new coupler by the looks of that end of the shaft, as it looks to be be well worn as well.
I'd replace 'em both as the issue will only get worse.

BTW
Same shaft as used here
105
107 2050038U
123
125
127 2050040U
147 2050041U 2050203U

Been a few since I checked in on this one. Engine is out for machine work.
Split the tractor today. It wasn't quite a mysterious a project as I had always
figured. Pretty fun actually. Looks to me like everywhere there is a seal or
a gasket it has been leaking. I figure it all gets replaced since I'm rolling
on it. When I drained the rear end and had a look at the insides it was
really pretty clean which pleased me for sure. Will spend the time while
waiting for parts, cleaning parts. Which is oddly
enough a job I enjoy. It is the kinda job you can just check all the things
a guy thinks about but really doesn't need to at the door.. Just clean and
daydream. Unfortunately not a good
time a year to pressure wash so it
all gets done on the bench. Do you suppose the previous guy ran out of
time to work on the leaks. His fix didn't quite work but maybe it slowed things down.
.:bigthink:

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Ken

Yup! That's the way most of them look after 30-40 years or even worse!
Notice the fins on the hydro are not painted??
There is a reason for that you know!!
Good luck with the cleanup.
I have used mineral spirits in a spray bottle and a parts cleaning brush w/good results while on the bench, that is after most of the bug chunks are removed.
Put a drain pan underneath on some cardboard to lessen the mess.

Had not put much thought into why the hydros are not painted till you
mentioned it. I will take a shot at it. Is it for heat dissipation in the pump.

Ken

Back in the days of pan head kick start Harleys, there was a debate as to painting the
heads/jugs or leaving them unpainted for better heat dissipation.
I think it still debated today, with just as much beer consumed. :biggrin2:

It would be my though that unpainted and rough sand blasted, would allow for more surface area to dissipate heat.
Then some began to use wrinkle paint, while somewhat insulating, gave a
better aesthetical look AND allowed cooling.
Me?
hell it don't matter as long as the fins can be seen, it is clean enough.
I doubt one will see the critical temps that would cause problems on
these old Klub hydro's. :beerchug:

Paint on cooling fins has been discussed here before so I am not going to express yet another opinion nor hijack this thread, but if you have trouble getting to sleep and really want to know you can read this https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/nb...cpaperT254.pdf or you can google the subject to find thousands of links that will tell you the same thing and come to your own conclusion.

If you are already fast asleep here is what the research conclusion is

"The experiment with the Melloni cube has, therefore, two
important applications, depending whether it is desired to (1)
decrease or (2) increase the process of heat radiation; and it may-
be enunciated, as a general principle, that clean, bright surfaces
of all metals or paints of metal flakes decrease the intensity of
thermal radiation (are poor radiators; that is, have a low emis-
sivity), while the nonmetals, or paints of nonmetals (oxides,
oxidized metal surfaces, etc.) facilitate or increase the rate of
heat radiation."

As a moron in a big white house says "Follow the Science" and don't believe the rumor mongers!

Iron Man, I am just nerdy enough about some things that I did enjoy
reading through this and did not fall asleep. Thanks for the link. You sent it
for free. This would have cost me a nickel to get in 1924.

My general conclusion was not necessarily arrived at from the article but
from just looking at these tractors we work on. They get really hot and it
causes lots of problems when they are covered in several inches of goo from
years of neglect. It always makes happy when I get them cleaned up and
know the are running cooler. Thanks

Ken

There's always brake caliper paint :D

Morning All. Sat down yesterday with a fairly large list of gaskets and seals.
Not quite sure how far to go with it as it was impossible to know exactly
what was leaking initially. Way to messy under there to tell. Does a guy
replace all the hydro seals etc. etc. even though he is not sure they are bad?
The real question however is this. Where I looked for parts mainly on Cubs
site or CCS. No one seems to have all the parts, just a piece here and there.
Looks like it will be more money in shipping
then in parts almost. Is there a place out there that you are familiar with
that would be worth checking out for these parts?
Engine gaskets seem pretty easy to come up with but I am looking at all
seals and gaskets for the hydro and rear end. Thanks again.

Ken

Probably best to order a complete kit from a hydraulics dealer that offers Sundstrand. Google Sundstrand U15 and go from there. Sites should show up. They've changed hands a few times since then, but will still be stocked.

Power wash or clean the hydro in some way, let dry and douse the suspect areas with some baby/talcum powder, run a bit and wait. The leaks will leave a trail in the powder and point right to the affected areas where the leaks are.

My bets are on the cork gasket as the major culprit.

After spending a quite a few days just letting things soak and scrubbing,
lots of elbow grease. Have got this rear end ready to start replacing gaskets
and seals. Plan for today is replace the cork gasket and get the hydro valves
boxed up and ready to go to Mark at Machtech.
Sure would have been nice to pressure wash this instead of just working
on the bench. Something about 25 below that makes a guy shy away
from playing in the water. :bigeyes: Also pondering how I am going to
fix the grooves worn in the cam bracket by the springs. When I don't weld.:bigthink:Attachment 109668

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Ken

Too bad we are so far apart. I would gladly weld anything of your needs in exchange for you cleaning my parts to make them look like that.:IH Trusted Hand:

Sounds like a fair trade. I would drive over and let you do it but at
the price of Brandons fuel. I could buy lots more tractors even if they
were in another state.

Took the hydro off today and have a question on the brake.
I was having no issues with the brake and was not going to dig into it
this round. I see in the parts blowup there is a single O ring that sits
against the outside of outer brake lining. Is it possible that something
could leak as a result of that being shot? Pretty messy in there but I
figured that was from stuff leaking above and running down into that
cavity where the brake rod runs.

Ken

If it is the brake puck "O" ring leaking, this thread will help you if you read it carefully....
https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ht=puck&page=3

page not found....

I got the same error.

Evening all, what I was thinking was that while I had the rear end on the
bench. It would be a much better time to replace that O ring (in case it was
leaking) now rather then on my back later. Is it possible to replace the O
ring without pulling it all the way to the brake lining?

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It looks like everything is pressed in there, correct?

I couldn't get the link you sent Iron M. to work either.

I sure appreciate the help. Go to school everyday, I like it alot

Ken

Sorry, try this again.
Read posts #11 thru #30 on pages 2 & 3.
https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ht=puck&page=2

Excellent read. thanks for the link and to JBrewer for documenting all
the info. Now I just have to decide whether or not to pull it apart to
fix an O ring that might not be bad. the brake itself is working just fine.
At least I now understand how this system works.
I will go to cleaning on the frame while I think it over.
Boy howdy is it nice to clean on cast iron instead of aluminum. Thanks again.

Ken

Pretty much in the wait on parts mode at this point. Funny how this has
become such a mess in world that has come so far.
Spent the last couple days scrubbing away and clearing off 50 plus
years of grease and grime. It is amazing to me how the paint jobs held
up on these old things. Sure there is paint chipped off here and there
but 90% of it is solid. I would imagine a part of that is living in the desert
like we do here. Todays relative humidity is a whopping 6%. Lots a static
this time of year.
I don't mind hand cleaning but it sure would be more effective to take
it outside. I have this all backwards as all my fun time in the shop has
to take place in the winter.:beerchug:

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Ken

You REALLY need a lift table!!

I believe you probably hit that nail on the head. I suppose that would
be something a person would need to build himself? Got any plans?

Ken