Hard starting K241
 

I bought a CC100 about six months ago and have been refreshing it over the summer. Pretty much done with it now, but the engine is a puzzle. I switched it's 10 HP K241 with a good running 106 engine a month ago that runs fine in the 100. I put the problem 100 engine in the donor CC106 and finally got it running this past weekend - by jumping it from my Dodge truck. A normal size garden tractor battery - 300 to 350 CCA - will not turn the engine over. The engine "catches" on the compression stroke and acts like it has a high compression head (which it does not). Once I jumped it with the Dodge, it ran great. A bit of background on this engine: the PO rolled it into a creek (broke his pelvis in the process - that's why I ended up with it). Anyway, I bought it as a non-running project tractor. It had roll over damage to the tin, etc. that I have repaired or replaced.

My question is this - could this engine have a slightly bent crankshaft? Or some other damaged critical engine part like the piston rod, bearings, etc.? I've had the head and the oil pan off and nothing jumped out at me. It confuses me because, while very hard starting, it runs pretty good once it's going. Oh, one other thing. The PO apparently had the starting problem before his wreck because he had modified the battery area to accept a full-size car battery. Hmmm..:bigthink:

Maybe you have a bad S/G ??

:bigthink:

Or the timing is too far advanced, have you set it by the static method?

Is the compression release working?

Roland and George - The S/G is good - I tried it out on the 106 and it's fine. I did a static timing in order to get it going. Might check it again though.

Now that's a thought. Having said that, how do I check it? :)

Pull the valve spring cover off and rotate the engine by hand while watching inside there. If its functioning correctly, you will be able to see the exhaust valve be bumped open just a little bit during the compression stroke.

While you're in there its a good time to check the valve clearances too, as if the exhaust valve clearance is too large the compression release won't work.

Excellent - I have some time tomorrow and I'll give that a try. Thanks, and I'll post some results tomorrow night!

Hopefully, one or more of the earlier suggestions will work! If it doesn't, perhaps it's worth checking that wiring connections are good! Bright and tight! Especially the ground. The engine should be grounded well!

Early IH Cub Cadet 100s did not have a compression release in them. My 100 with serial number 84xxx had a 2 piece cam and no compression release in the engine.

That is a good point actually. The best way to check this other than by serial number is to pull the cam gear cover and have a look.

My SN is 92562, built a little after yours, but still in the same year, unless I'm reading the chart wrong. Does that qualify as an early CC 100?

Good advice! I did clean all of the connections and mating surfaces on this the tractor this engine sits in now (a 106) when I refreshed it a few years ago, but it's worth checking again now, thanks. I learned this lesson well when I did the refresh on my Farmall H with the 6 volt system. The 6 volt is VERY unforgiving of bad electrical connections!

FYI and FWIW

#92562 was built in August of '64 which puts it smack in the middle of series 2 and the 100's production dates of Aug '63 to Aug '65 when 39,042 100's were built along with some 22,600 70's.

Starting at #65,468 through 127,160

Second CC107's suggestion. Pull the cam cover and you should be able to see the comp release mechanism. It would explain a lot since the rollover could have knocked the CR spring out of position.

Are you sure your S/G is working up to capacity? They can spin freely without a belt but then bog down under load. This can be anything from worn/gummy bearings/bushings to worn brushes, dirty commutator, loose/worn wires, etc.

Thanks - I guess I'll be pulling the cover off and checking the CR spring as well. As to the S/G - i switched it back and forth with the 106 engine (and vice versa) and both S/G's worked on the 106. I'll check the CR, valves, and timing first, then give a re-look at the S/G.

I appreciate all the input!

Thank you!

I pulled the valve cover and the cam cover. I can see that there is a spring on the ACR next to the cam gear, but dang, it's tough to move the engine through the compression cycle! Makes me think that either the valve is not adjusted right or the spring is loose or weak. I found a very good video explanation of the ACR on youtube - here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_N5...dMetalShopTime

I ran out of time today, so I'll have to wait a few days to try adjusting the valve clearance. If that doesn't work, I'll pull the engine (again), drop the oil pan, and see about just replacing the spring. Just one spring, right?

Pull the plug out!!

Hahaha! Okay. I knew to do that, this was just a quick run through.

Since you now know that there is indeed an ACR, you'll want to do as I had originally posted and remove the valve spring cover, then spin it over by hand to watch for correct function. And make sure the valves are adjusted to the correct clearances.

Yep, that's my plan for next week. Gotta get past this weekend first - entertaining two grandkids (7 & 9 y.o.) - I'd rather be adjusting the valves on the 100, but gotta do family chores!

7 & 9 are not to young to expose to wrenching.
One day when you are no longer around they will remember helping Gr pa work on it!

No wrenching for these young'uns yet, but they love to ride on the H and the Cub. Maybe driving the Cub in a year or so. Heck, I was driving an H at 10!

:IH Trusted Hand:

My twin boys were riding Yamaha mini Enduro's at 5 yrs old, and they helped put it together as it was a "parts bike"
7 and 9 are not too young for turning wrenches!!!!!!!!!!!!:beerchug:

Okay, over the weekend I adjusted the valves and gave it a try starting. Pretty much the same result - it still hangs up on the compression stroke. I've decided to rebuild the S/G and buy a 450 CCA battery to see if that will make a difference. Also, I noticed that the pulleys on the two S/G's I have are different. The one on the 106 (the tractor with the starting problem) is smaller in diameter than the one on the 100. I ordered a new pulley as well (larger) - maybe that's the problem. Any other suggestions? :bash2:

Is the ACR working? Is the exhaust valve slightly open on the compression stroke? Sometimes the small tab that holds the valve open is bent or broken.

A smaller pulley on the starter gives more power/ less speed and vise versa with a bigger pulley.:bigthink:

Hmmm. I need to check that - can the tab be seen with the gear cover off, or will I need to pull the engine off and remove the oil pan?

Regardless, I'll try the S/G rebuild, larger pulley, and better battery first. Probably by this weekend (waiting on some parts...:BangPC:)

Thanks George - The old (smaller) pulley is pretty banged up anyway. A PO had rigged up a bigger diameter pulley on the crankshaft (since replaced) and was using a full size car battery for starting (I think I'm understanding that this was how he compensated for the problem I'm seeing now).

Since there's a S/G rebuild in the works now, I'll just switch out the S/G pulley as well and see what happens. :)

A couple of links that might be helpful

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ession+release

https://www.onlycubcadets.net/forum/...ession+release

Thanks for the links - hoping it isn't what's wrong with mine...:bigeyes:

Well I checked for the tab on the ACR just now. I think I've found the problem. No tab. Must have broken off some time ago in a previous life. Dang. I suppose that means that I have to replace the timing gear, right?

Sounds like an over the winter project...

:(

Interesting,
You were asked in post #4 about the compression release.
now we are at post 33.
Not hammering on you, just saying .:bigthink:

I'm just trying to learn and this seems a good place to do that.

My next question is what part # am I going to need? There are a number of them on eBay with PN 47 010 06 , but some are for K241AS and some are off of a Wheel Horse, etc. I just want to make sure I get the correct part.

I'm pretty sure its the same camshaft for the k241, k301, and i think k321. Should look like this

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...0.jpg&usqp=CAU

That looks like it. I had to put a new cam in the k301 in my 123 for the same reason you need one now. It was a non-running basket case when I got it. It is almost 20 years now, but my memory of it is that everything has to come out of the crankcase to get to it. Might as well check & replace anything that is worn like worn piston/connecting rod/crankshaft etc while you are in there. When I did mine, it needed a new oversized piston, re-bored, bearings and a new (used) crankshaft.

I don't remember it being a difficult job, but it did require a generous application of dollars for parts and machining. On the plus side, it hasn't needed anything internal since then.

Yup, almost everything needs to come out to get to it, other than the governor.

Jim, You don't need to go the route of a complete rebuild but its probably a pretty good idea to check over all the measurements and specs, especially if you don't actually know the condition of the engine. I mean everything could be really nice and just require a set of new rings, or it could be worn way out of round and need a rebore. Better safe than sorry imo.

Dave, thanks for that input. I figured that I'd be having to do that. Dang. Good advice though on fixing up any other problems as long as I'm in there. For sure it'll be a "winter project!"

And a thank you too, CC107, for great response and advice, which I surely need! I'll take it slow and (hopefully) steady in the next couple of months. First off is to get a new gear/ACR!