Predator engine swap
 

Has anybody swapped a Predator engine into an 82 series Cub Cadet? I'm considering replacing the Briggs in my 582 and was wondering if the Predator would be a good candidate with minimal or no modifications needed.

I haven't done it personally, but they've been done and they work well. Exhaust/PTO/driveshaft is always the tricky part. I believe you can (or used to be able to) get an adapter for the flywheel/driveshaft part that fits a honda engine and work from there.

Horizontal shaft engine? I'm not familiar with the 582.
I think the biggest thing people run into is the charging system on the predator sucks.
If it was me I'd find an 18 or 20hp kohler out of a 2000 series.
Not only is it a better engine but will likely bolt right in.

Try these guys for adapters
https://www.performance670.com/?fbcl...gCHqQZCg3H4uJ8

Thanks for the advice!

I just did it on a 682 so it's fresh in my memory. Here's what I had to do to give you an idea of what's involved. In my case, I tried to keep the 682' as unmolested as possible in case I or someone would want to put an original motor in it some day.

The two repower sites that I inquired with no longer sell just parts without a motor. It's all or nothing, so I had to make just about everything.

The two things I did buy was the engine mount plate from Performance670 and a 1" - 1 1/8" sleeve for the PTO

The engine mount plate (1/4") + the KT17's original engine spacers (1/2") gave the engine the perfect height. I welded the spacers to the plate.

I had to make my own extension/coupling for the driveshaft to connect to the flywheel. Performance670 may've had something that would've worked but they said it would need to be modified so I didn't bother with theirs. I tinker around with aluminum investment casting so it was an opportunity to put that use.

I made an adapter plate to adapt the PTO bolt pattern to the engine's bolt pattern.

I modified the Predators muffler to have a front exit instead of the side exit.

Since the 682 originally had a coil ignition, I wired in a relay to connect the 670's ignition coils to ground when the key is off.

I removed the needle from the carb's fuel cut solenoid and left that disconnected. I wanted to leave the fuel cut solenoid functionality in place, but since the 682's ignition switch cuts the 12v line during cranking, I would've had to do extra wiring with diodes or relays so some such thing that I didn't want to try and work out right now.

I did connect the oil level sensor to the ignition coils so the low-oil ignition cut function should still work.

I used the CC's starter relay and just ran a heavy wire extension from the original starter wire, which is on the left side of the Kohler to the 670 starter, which is on the right side.

I was able to mount the CC's choke cable onto the engine without any major modification. For the throttle, I connected the CC's throttle cable to the 670's with the little barrel/screw connector that came on the 670. I welded a n extra bracket onto the 670's alternator bracket to hold them in place. It's a little extra complication but again, I wanted to modify the 682 as little as possible.

I think that is about it for the major hurdles. The one oil line to the cooler rubs a little on the side cover when it's in place so I would be concerned with it wearing through after many many hours of use. I think by shifting the oil cooler position a little I can alleviate that.

Impressions?

It runs nice and smooth and is quite a bit quieter than the CC's I have with the M18.

Power? It's got good power, but the CC's I use with the M18 don't seem to struggle with much either so I don't know how noticeable the extra HP will be in practical use.

The charging system, as is known, is weak. With the PTO on, it seems to hold its own when it's at or near full throttle (according to the ammeter) But I'll know better after some mowing sessions whether or not it's going to be able to maintain the battery charge. With the headlights on, the ammeter reads discharge :crap: Of all the obstacles, this is the most annoying as there are no simple fixes.

I've read a couple different options: belt-driven alternator (it'd be quite hard to make that fit I think), 6-magnet flywheel from a Honda (timing keyway is in a different place so would have to be modified), or the most intriguing solution, rewind the charging coils with more windings to increase their output.

I have thought about weak charging system on different tractors at different times for one reason or another. I thought a few times, maybe I can add a capacitor in line with battery. I have not looked into what proper size cap it should be. I got to thinking about this after seeing several car audio guys adding large capacitors for sub bass speakers demaning more power especially when car is at an idle. Anyway, something I might look into

A large cap is only for supplying high current during very short periods, such as when starting up an electric motor from a dead stop or when someone feels the need to vibrate all the windows in a 200 ft radius with a bass hit from their car stereo. It's not really going to provide a net benefit to a weak charging system on a lawn tractor.

If you're curious how the Predator fits into the CC, here's a pic (this forum has really strict attachment limitations!)

Here's the picture

"With the headlights on, the ammeter reads discharge. Of all the obstacles, this is the most annoying as there are no simple fixes."

How about switching to LED headlights?

I did think about LEDs as a possibility, but in reality I'm probably not going to ever mow at night so I won't bother for now.

A little update on it though. So I've used it to mow for a couple hours and it runs (mostly, see below) great. It's smoother and quieter than the Kohler and oddly, the tractor seems to ride nicer. I can't explain that other than maybe it is a lighter engine and sits back further so the weight is more over the rear tires so it's less bouncy up front.

But it hasn't been 100% smooth sailing. I checked the oil and it wasn't at the "full" line. I wasn't worried about it burning oil but figured that some went into the oil cooler and filter after the first run and I did loose a little when I installed the oil pressure gauge. So I topped it off and did another mow. Half-way through it starts billowing smoke, but only when I'm on a grade. After the initial shock I knew right away I had over filled it. I went to check it and it was then I realized the rubber "cork" that is on the dipstick was moving around so I wasn't getting an accurate reading. Second ding on the Predator quality. Fortunately the stick is painted black where the cork should be positioned. I left a little oil out and that problem was solved.

However, as I was getting to the end of the mow, it stalled. After some extended cranking it restarted and I mowed some more, then other stall. I was able to finish but I think it's the fuel pump not supplying enough when under load. I read here or somewhere about their fuel pumps not being so great. So I guess I'm going to be replacing that. Another ding on the Predator.

So all in all, I'm not super satisfied with the quality. 3 problems -- faulty starter, crappy dipstick, and (most likely) a crappy fuel pump. You get what you pay for I suppose. However I put a Duromax 713 on a buggy and that didn't have any problems and as of now they are the same price as the Predator ($999) so I would go with one of those if I would have to do another. The downside to the Duromax though is no muffler, so I'd be making one from scratch or adapting something to fit.

Just figured I'd post a little update on this.

Been using this swapped tractor for mowing regularly and it's been running fine. You really have to make sure the choke is fully closed when starting and it takes a few cranks. I assume that is because of how lean these carbs are tuned.

I figured out the starter problem -- it was my goof, I didn't have the Predator's starter solenoid hooked up so it wasn't kicking the gear in (headsmack).

The battery charging is borderline. It has to be run WOT when mowing or the battery will gradually discharge and after a couple hours you have to throw a charger on it or keep it on a trickle charger.

The other thing I've noticed, alarmingly, is that under a certain set of circumstances the oil pressure gauge will drop to 0 for a second or two. The circumstances are: fully hot engine (thin oil), WOT or near to it, a rapid travel direction change from reverse to forward, while on an incline.

The first time this happened it scared the dickens out of me, seeing the oil pressure gauge at 0 on a brand new engine is frightening! I instantly turned the key off but before the engine could even wind down the pressure was already coming back up.

Over time, this happened again and eventually I noticed the precise circumstances of when it occurs but I am very puzzled by it. Puzzled by why it happens but also why it doesn't seem to really bother the engine. Naturally I try to avoid the circumstances, but it does happen occasionally and with no seemingly ill effects. My assumption is that the oil pickup becomes uncovered from the oil sloshing towards the flywheel side of the engine.

I hesitate to say it's not a big deal, because it seems like it should be, but yet I see people putting these engines on all kinds of things, including swamp boats, buggies, etc. and in all my research I didn't find any recurring evidence of them grenading because of oil starvation. Since I know why it occurs, I can mostly avoid it and when it does occur, I just pause for a second, sigh, and continue mowing...

Another notable development, for those that are interested.

The site where I got my mounting plate, Performance670, has changed to Performance Machine and Design and I think now has more hub adaptors, including one I think would've worked on my 682.

They also have parts available for the Duromax 713cc v-twin which I think may be a better engine than the Predator. I repowered a Honda Odyssey FL250 buggy with one of those a couple years ago and it has been a good engine, taking a lot of abuse.

Currently those engines are on Amazon for $799 with free shipping, which is a steal (I paid $999) The one downside is they don't come with an exhaust. You'll have to buy the exhaust flanges and fab your own.

Got a link to that Duromax? I can't find it on Scamazon.

Amazon, where it's $799
https://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP23H...089KVXRYZ?th=1
Duromax, where it's $999
https://www.duromaxpower.com/product...SAAEgL2cvD_BwE

Go figure?

Thanks Ironman. It's weird that I type in duromax and I got generators and smaller engines but not the xp23 engine on scamazon.:bash2: That's a great deal.

Not a bad price at all but if you read the reviews on the Duramax site, not all of them are glowing.
And I tried looking at their Parts Finder and it's a joke, zilch info.
Then looked at the engine manual, same joke, different punch line, no part numbers.
I'd do a lot of calls to their customer care line before purchasing.

It's been a while, but I think I remember finding a parts manual for a Duromax generator online that uses the 713cc engine and it had a parts breakdown of the engine.

Here's a video where a guy found and bought the muffler and he shows the part # for the muffler and gaskets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAjqJ-cJNZg

But yeah, you'd think that designing, building, and marketing AN ENGINE would be the hard part and that producing a manual with part #'s would be painfully simple and and self-evidentially necessary.

I just don't understand what goes through the "mind" of some of these companies.

So, after all is said and done, it would seem that these two engines being discussed may not be the best choices for an engine swap?

Watched the video you suggested and came across another with lots of good info....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uS6oZbom_0