Capabilities of new vs old?
 

Please nobody shoot me for asking this, but I’m generally curious.

I’ve seen lots of the older tractors (not just CC) with what I would consider “weak” engines for a tractor - 5-7HP. Yet they were beast machines and could pull/haul/push like nobody’s business. And they are also “small” - what you would consider a “lawn tractor” by modern standards.

My question is, with modern lawn tractors having double the HP and some even having the same hydro transmission models as the older ones, why is it that the newer ones can’t do the same stuff as the old models with lower HP? I mean I’ve seen push mowers with 6HP engines - is it something I’m missing or does it simply come down to them selling labels and making money?

Heavy iron and torque!

It is NOT the horse power...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0E7kRhd6M

That video is impressive, but what is it exactly that makes the older stuff have more “umph” than the new? Is it torque? Transmission/gear ratios? Or is just cuz “old shit was built better”?

What specifically is keeping a newer tractor from doing the same stuff as an old?

TORQUE!

:IH Trusted Hand:

I guess I just need to research more about torque and how it works. I’m guessing since the engine isn’t’t very powerful yet it can do more, then it’s something to do with the transmission? But don’t some of the modern LTs use the exact same transmissions as the older stuff, just different housings for different models?

NOPE. Things today are made.................cheaper.

So it is just all money and marketing. They make the new stuff cheaper with weaker transmissions, yet give you a big engine to make you feel special. Then they deny warranty when you blow it up trying to do something you shouldn’t. They want you to spend more money on the bigger more powerful version to do what the older ones could do by default…

This is why most of the guys here prefer the Pre 1990 machines.

:IH Trusted Hand:

Ok now I’m really confused.

My 2155 (lawn tractor) has the BDU-10L Hytrans transmission. And the 2185 (a garden tractor) appears to have the same transmission based off what I’m reading on tractorgearbox website. The only difference between the two is the 2185 has a 2-cylinder engine with more HP. So what’s to say I couldn’t do the same things as this higher model garden tractor, since the older models have newer, lower HP engines than mine?

Is this all just marketing bullsh*t?

Of course it's all marketing BS. What do you want to do with your tractor? I currently have 2185 and 2 3000 series tractors. 2185 is a good tractor. Horizontal crank engine with shaft drive to the tansaxle. Basically the same tractor as a new xt3. Also has real wheels with lugnuts. Most tractors have a belt drive to the transaxle and wheels held on with woodroof keys and cir clips.

I thought about your question a bit more. I think some of your understanding and responses are being skewed a bit by the generality of "older tractors".

If you are talking about pulling a plow. A hydro will not out pull a true manual from the late 60's or 70's. A hydro is an inefficient device at transmitting power or torque. But wonderful at variable speed and fast forward / reverse transition. The older engines had good torque and lower speed, combine that with manual transmission and even creeper transmission for massive torque multiplication. I don't think that a manual transmission garden tractor exists in the market anymore.

Newer engines run faster at generally 3600 rpm.
HP = Torque x RPM/5252.
So if you run you engine faster you can advertise higher HP numbers. HP is what they want to advertise as that catches the buyers attention. Torque is an abstract concept to many folks.

Your 18hp engine can be converted into KW = 13.4kw. Deduct some losses for belt drive you could run a 12 kw generator or so. I don't think those older engines could do that.

I invite anyone to check me if i'm wrong or have overstated anything.

Sorry one more post.

If we look at large tractors more data is available to demonstrate. IHC sold the 1066 and 966 in both gear and hydro variants. So test data is available for both.

From a pto power stand point not much difference, drawbar was huge losses. Folks paid extra money for a 1066 hydro but only got the pulling power of a 966 gear.

1066 gear $21100 (1976)
PTO = 125hp
Drawbar = 105hp

1066 hydro (don't know but more than the gear drive version)
pto =113 hp
drawbar = 84hp

966 gear $18,000 (1976)
pto = 100
drawbar = 85hp







http://www.tractordata.com/farm-trac...066-tests.html

https://www.tractordata.com/farm-tra...966-tests.html

I’ve heard that comparison before on here that the 2000 series lawn tractor was about the same as a newer XT3 which is like the “top of the line” garden tractor they sell these days. Based on the specs it also has the BDU-10 transmission but 22HP engine. And it can use a rear tiller, slow thrower, and front blade.

I guess I’m just mainly trying to figure out what I *could* do with this tractor if I ever had the need. There was a rear tiller attachment for it, snow thrower, and a front blade. Since it has the same transmission as a garden tractor, but with lesser HP, could I engage in some more “heavier” tasks if I took it easy (since I have less HP)? Would the lesser HP even make that much a difference (15HP vs 22HP)?

Even though those attachments were available, doesn't mean the lighter tractors were effective using those tools.

The 2000 series machines are considered very good mowing machines, and I'm sure the larger models are capable of running a blower, snowplow, or tiller. But unless you can find those tools cheap, I don't think it would be cost effective.

Not sure how things are by you but I'd venture a guess that 9 out of 10 2185 and larger 2000 series machines get the engines yanked out of them to repower the older garden tractors. Honestly, many of the 3000 series (and even Cyclops tractors) get parted to save (and upgrade- think fine spline rearends, super steer front axles, or even power steering swaps) the older tractors.

I used a 2185 to save my 782. Aside from the engine there wasn't anything else I could use and had no takers for any of the other parts. I scrapped the rest.

I never see any of the IH CC for sale around here. Mostly what people are selling are LT-1000 series and newer. That’s why I grabbed up this 2155 as it was the oldest one I could get my hands on.