129 starter runs constantly
 

I have a 129 which I inherited and I have been reworking to get it running. I replaced the key switch and now when i turn the key to run the starter/generator runs constantly . I have not changed any wiring except bypassing the neutral switch as the tab to it is broken. I have fresh new battery and a new aftermarket voltage regulator. Any help on this would be appreciated.

First, welcome to OCC.......... :Welcome2:

Sounds like your have the wrong V/R and/or it is wired wrong.

Or the wrong key switch.

So, when did the constant run start happening?
When you replaced the ignition switch OR when you replaced the voltage regulator? either one can cause the problem as so very well stated by Iron Man and Roland.
Lets start with the easy one. the regulator.
Is it really the correct one?
Do go by the LABELED terminal ends on the regulator, not their physical location!!!
as there is no standard to them, they can put them where they please.
if no joy there, then on to the ig sw.
There are many so called "will fit" switches that are different as far as what is connected in what position they are turned too, and cause just your problem.
Hope this helps you when following the wiring diagram to find the problem.
if you kept the old switch/reg you can substitute back to them to see where the problem is.
Always change one thing at a time if you didn't, it helps if something is not right.
lets us know what you find.:bigthink:

Welcome!

I'm not familiar with the 129 wiring but I suspect there is a solenoid in the starter circuit?

There is no starter sol, it is old skool, a starter/generator.:BlahBlah:

According to the wiring diagram, there is a starter solenoid! New skool stuff!

I don't have a 129, but I know that my 123 and 125 both have a starting solenoid.

yep ,under the dash on the right side !:beerchug:

It's got a solenoid, but it's kind of hard to understand your scenario. The s/g runs all the time when there's a battery connected? Only after you've started cranking it?

Try again with some background on when/how this started happening.

Thought so. Kind of hard to supply the kind of current needed to turn over a starter without a solenoid or very heavy duty switch.


In the original post it sounds like the starter constantly runs when the key in in the run position.

If that's the case, sounds like a wiring issue?

Read ol'George's post. I'd be surprised if you didn't have a wire out of position on the aftermarket V/R. I experienced the exact issue you are having. Look closely and see what the terminals are labeled. It has something to do with the solo terminal on the bottom side.

My Bad, getting old and forgetful, been a lot of years since I've worked on them.

It runs after I attempt to start it and turn the switch to what I 'd call the run position??? Key switch is brand new from cub cadet directly. Voltage regulator is aftermarket....will recheck to make sure it's correctly wired.

Is the switch THE SAME as the one you removed??

Part number IH-60736-C1

Voltage regulator IH-545130-R92

There are hundreds of key swiches out there that all look the same on the outside,
but make different connections on the inside when off or operated, so it is important that you have the correct switch.
As stated above, IH-60736-C1 or IH-60736-C3 which replaced it.

On the regulator, there are 3 terminal and 4 terminal models.

If you have the 3 terminal model, the terminals are labled "B" (bat), "G" (gen), and "F" (field).
You may, or may not also have a ground terminal that is attached directly to the regulator base.
The "B" terminal should have a gray wire coming from your amp meter (if you have one).
The "G" terminal should have a blue wire coming from the "A" terminal on your s/g.
The "F" terminal should have a yellow wire coming from the "F" terminal on your s/g.

If you have the 4 terminal model, the terminals are labeled "B" (bat), "F" (field), "L" (load), and "G" (gen).
The "G" terminal will be on the underneath of the base. Do not mistake it as being for "ground".
The "B" terminal should have the gray wire coming from your amp meter.
The "F" terminal should have the yellow wire coming from the "F" terminal on your s/g.
The "G" terminal shold have the blue wire coming from the "A" terminal on your s/g.
If you have headlights, put the wire from the headlight switch on the "L" terminal.

Whether 3 or 4 terminal regulator, the base must have a good connection to ground.

A few ideas on mystery starting
 

I would try disconnecting all wires except the hot wire from the solenoid to the s/g, leaving all wires connected to and from the switch and battery and coil. Everything that goes to the battery would be attached to the hot post of the solenoid. If the mystery starting stopped, this would point to either the wiring of the v/r or the wiring from the s/g to the v/r (or a short in that wiring.) As a sort of double check, try hot wiring the engine by connecting a jump wire from the positive post of the coil to the hot post of the s/g and run jumper cables from the positive post of the battery to the same post on the s/g and a ground cable from the negative post on the battery to the motor block. Also get the wiring diagram for the 129 on the internet and check your hook up of the v/r. I'm suspecting either faulty hook up or bad wiring to the v/r from the switch or solenoid or left side of the s/g. It would probably be easier to rewire the routing to the v/r after checking to wiring diagram. Good luck. I've been battling the same problem. Let us know what you find out. Carpetbagger

Note to self: Next time only replace one item at a time and make sure that it works after each substitution! :-)

Victory! Maybe.....Swapped voltage regulator from my other 129 and no dice. Left V/R in and tried swapping out key switch with one from parts stores and boom she turns over correctly. Not sure what's wrong with oem key switch I spent $70 on :angry:..... I'll have to check if it was correct part number??? No it at least turns over correctly but doesn't fire off.....I checked and there is spark just doesn't fire off?

That would leave fuel , timing and compression to check (in that order) :-)

Carpet bagger I see your a fellow Iowa member. What part of the great state are you from? I'm from NW Iowa.

Carpetbagger and 129Richard....
Just a thought....

Either one of you considered attending the upcoming Heritage Park show at Forrest City next month? June 18-20. Feature this year is Lawn and garden tractor equipment in addition to the usual steam equipment

Or the Annual Threshermen show at Albert City Aug 13-15
Feature this year is IH and Iowa IH Collectors Club Chapter #5 is guest.
I hope to make both shows this year.

I'll maybe have to check those shows out. I have fuel, spark and compression. What's the procedure for setting timing?

Setting the static timing is easy. Check the manual in the links in the documentation section.

Back at it
 

So I now have gotten back to the 129 after a long winter. I believe I have the voltage regulator wired correctly and the new OEM ignition switch installed. The tractor now starts and runs but.....only when you hold the key in the start position. if you let the key return to the run condition it just kills.

The Ignition Switch is NOT wired correctly. Wire the switch, per the OEM Diagram, as found in our Technical Library Section, on page #5.

Tried switching wiring around on ignition switch...nothing happened when turning key. Switched wiring back and had same results. Justfor giggles I tried another switch from parts store and I get same results....engine starts and will run but only with key in start position?

You do have a Wiring Diagram right ?? And the tractor is wired exactly as the diagram ??

:bigthink:

What is the part number of your new ignition switch? Don't look it up in the parts book! Look for it on your invoice, the switch or the packaging in which it came.

Thanks!

Don't just switch wires around or you're going to have a bigger problem than what you started with (like a ruined wiring harness). The starting system is quite simple IF you are working with the correct parts to start with. As noted , triple check that you've got the right switch and let us know what you have.


We can go from there!

still confused
 

I have an oem switch part# IH-60736-C3 installed which i believe is the correct part? Also as best I can tell all is wired correctly.

Now i am back to the issue of when i turn the key to the start position the starter/gen turns as it should and then when I let key back to the run position the starter/gen still runs constantly.....Any thoughts?:bash2:

Also found that the carb now leaks fuel....likely stuck float or bad bowl gasket...should be an easy fix!

The Ignition Switch is correct for the 129. (A) The Ignition Switch is defective, (B) not wired correctly, or (C) a wiring harness issue (shorted wires).

Fair chance your starter constantly turning engine over without running is leading you to believe you have a fuel leak from carburetor.....in other words, flooding!

Still frustrated
 

Checked over wiring as best as possible without tearing things completely apart....all looks good. Checked all 4 wires on voltage regulator all are connected to correct terminals. Would a bad ground somewhere cause the starter to run continuously in the run position? Otherwise I'm out of ideas....I have an oem voltage regulator from my spare 129 which ran fine before I borrowed it.

The wire harness for the 129 should have a 3 pin connector for the ignition switch so there SHOULD be no way to connect it improperly.

Clarification
 

Clarifcation i have an oem v/r installed and wired correctly. Would an incorrectly wired starter generator cause it to turn continuously with the ignition in the run position?

129Richard,,,,What do you mean EXACTLY when you say " when I turn the key to the run position,the starter/generator runs constantly" ?.
Is the engine running when you return the key to the "run" position?
Of course the starter/generator is still turning whenever the engine is running,because it is turned by the belt so it can "generate".
It is not like a starter on a car or a lawnmower that stops turning when you turn the key to the "run" position. It turns all the time when the engine is running to "generate". That is why it is called a starter/generator.

I bought a new (wrong) voltage regulator once that caused the starter to run as soon as I hooked up the battery (with key in the off position IIRC). Turns out it was for a International Farmall 100 tractor (which DOES NOT use a starter/generator) and not an International Harvester Cub Cadet 100 garden tractor.

picture borrowed from tractordata.com

The engine just turns over with the switch in run position after trying to start. When I did get it started as soon as I returned the switch to run position the engine shuts off? Hope this makes sense.

It's a wiring issue
Only hot wire in the run position should be to the coil.
Think about it.
Time to break out some test equipment.