First Cub
 

Hi all!

Neighbor has had this sitting out front for a while and I finally caved and picked it up :biggrin2: It's my first Cub but I can feel the addiction beginning already, uh oh. I am pretty sure it's a 102 but I'm not positive. It's got the 10hp Kohler K241 and the three speed gearbox. I think the hood might be wrong; doesn't seem like the same decal/logo that you normally see on tractors from this era.

Unfortunately there's no tag on the axle. It looks like it was initially painted red but has yellow on top; perhaps a Farmall axle that has been swapped in?

No creeper but I think I'd like to find one. Would like to find some implements as well. No projects to put it to work on yet, though, so for now I'll just be tinkerin' :ThumbsUp:

One question I do have is - to start the tractor, you just put the key in and turn it one click clockwise and it fires up and runs. I would have expected there to be a separate key position for starting (or perhaps a pushbutton) but there isn't. Hopefully the starter/generator isn't in the start position at all times when running? Just doesn't seem right to me.

Thanks for looking!

:Welcome2:

That's a nice 102! I think somebody stuck the wrong decals on the hood, that's all. As for the trans, the primer/undercoat used on the transmissions is red. It was also used on the inside of the transmission.

As for the ignition, only the Original, 70, and 100 had a key ignition switch and separate push button to start. Seems that the 71, 102, 122 and 123 have a 2-position key switch that works in the way you describe it. All tractors after that have a 3-position key switch.

Thanks for the welcome and the information! That's good to hear about both the axle and the ignition switch. I wonder how that works electrically, only having two positions on the switch :bigthink:

It sure ran like a champ on the quarter mile drive home last night :biggrin2: Aside from the wandering steering!

2 points off and on
When it's on there is supposed to be a push button on the dash to make the connection to the solenoid.

Your key is spring loaded to the right, correct?

The 102 is a series #3 Cub, last ones with the bolt on sub frames and mule drives.

Good score! Looks to be in great shape!

No, it’s just a two position one. As soon as you turn it to the run position the tractor fires up and runs. If I remember correctly though, there is a wire with an alligator clip running to one of the terminals on the coil. I think it runs back up to the solenoid. Perhaps that is a shadetree’d solenoid connection?

And thank you, it does seem to be in good shape so far!!

Doesn't sound right to me. There should be a starter solenoid in the dash tower behind the battery. The start position of the switch energizes it. That would require a 3 position switch.
If your tractor is cranking as soon as you turn the key, then your solenoid must be staying energized constantly once it starts. Not good for the solenoid, or the generator for that matter.

welcome to OCC... really nice tractor, good luck with it.:beerchug:

When I looked up a key switch for a 102 it gave me results about a 2 position switch, Wasn't sure it was correct though. I don't own a machine from that series but I'm pretty sure they all should have the three-position switch. Off, On, and Start. Start is spring-loaded so that when you let go of it it pops back to the run position.

I would recommend simply replacing your starter switch with the correct one :beerchug:

I just noticed your comment about driving it down the street to bring it home, I love taking my cubs all around the neighborhood whenever I can :biggrin2:

That a nice California tractor, and rust free as usual.

Welcome to OCC..........:Welcome2:

102 should have a 3 position switch. Off, on, and spring loaded start. It also uses a toothed key instead of an Indak style key.

Well I feel sort of silly... there is a third key position, which starts the tractor right up :blush:. I took that odd jumper wire off (which ran from the positive coil terminal to the safety switch terminal on the solenoid) and now the ignition circuit operates as normal.

Only problem is, I’ve realized that the charging system is not working. The battery voltage does not increase when the tractor is running versus when it’s stopped. I took the S/G off of the tractor and did the field test where you spin it up with 12 volts, and then put +12v to the F terminal while it’s still spinning. It had no effect. I then opened up the S/G and found that the wire that connects to the backside of the F terminal is totally busted off. No wonder it didn’t work... Is there a way to reattach this wire? Perhaps it was soldered at the factory?

I’ve attached a couple photos, one of the S/G as it was connected before I took it all apart (and the wiring doesn’t seem right to me either, based on the diagram I’ve seen in the service manual), and one of the broken wiring connection. Sorry about the rotated pictures... not sure how to fix that :blush:

What do you guys think? Is this fixable?

If this was me, I would. But then again, I have to tools to do so. You may need a small torch to get enough heat to overcome the "mass" to get the solder to melt.

If you remove the terminal, it would be less "mass" to heat up and using a
LARGE soldering gun or better yet, a soldering copper.
Or heating up the terminal with a propane torch and applying solder after the end is bright and clean, should get you some joy as Roland mentioned.
Remember to flow the solder, "globbing up" don't get it done.
Luck!

By all means, remove the terminal. It passes thru the case inside a plastic/nylon insulator.
Melt that and you will have more troubles than a broken wire.
Your brushes are pretty much crap too.

That was my first thought when I looked at that pic :biggrin2::biggrin2:

Couldn't have said it better!

My sister does have a small kitchen torch, I'll have to ask to borrow it.
I have a 140W soldering gun but I'm not sure it would be quite large enough. Torch might be the better option. Is there a certain kind of solder I should be using for something like this? All my soldering experience is smaller stuff (electronics and radio equipment).
That nylon insulator is hanging by a thread as it is, sadly, so I will be careful there.

As far as the brushes go, they are definitely toast :biggrin2:

If I had to guess, those could be the brushes that tractor came with when new! :bigeyes:

No problem though, they sell repair kits with new brushes. They come with new bearings too so you can replace the bearing(s, depending on the end cap yours has).

Edit: looking at your pictures above I can see that you have the type with 2 bearings, some only have 1 bearing at the front and a bushing at the back.

You remind me that I really need to check the brushes on my 106, it's been working like a charm since before I bought it but who knows how worn they could be...

So, after doing some more thinking, I believe that the incorrect S/G wiring (shown in my picture of the exterior of the S/G) resulted in the burning up of the field coil connection to the stud terminal. I have no idea why someone would connect it that way. From what I can tell, there's no reason that more than one wire should ever be connected to the field terminal.

In any case, I ordered a couple of replacement stud terminals through ebay, along with replacement brushes and new bearings. I'm hoping to be able to re-solder the broken field wire to the new stud terminal using a small torch and some rosin core solder. If I fail, though, I found a local mom-and-pop alternator/starter/etc. rebuilding shop that does a lot of ag rebuilds.

Under no circumstances do I want to replace this S/G with a cheapo rebuilt Chinese boat anchor, so one way or another this S/G will be back in action shortly :ThumbsUp:

It would be good to have your armature commutators machined and field coils tested.
Maybe you can take your s/g and kit to mom & pop and they will give you a break on rebiulding it.
They will certainly be able to re-attach the wire to the terminal.

That's a good idea, actually. I'll have next week off; hopefully they won't! :biggrin2:

Merry Christmas all!

Evening gents,

I decided to pull the engine and go through it to see what the condition is. I’m at the point where I’m removing the front PTO clutch and, you guessed it, those darn set screws are in there GOOD. One of the set screws now has the tip of a T20 bit jammed into it which broke off when I was trying to loosen the screw. So...I don’t think I’m going to be able to get that Torx bit piece out; not easily anyways. My question now is, can you pull the clutch assembly as a unit without removing the 6 set screws from the pulley? Obviously the bearing would have to come with it.

There is an eccentric locking collar on the bearing which also has a set screw. Not sure you can get in there with a punch or an Allen key. And its' a 50/50 chance that you'll tap the collar the right rotation.

It is possible, the PTO on my 147 came off that way even with all the set screws removed. However it probably will take a bunch of extra force to drive off the bearing with the PTO.

I have used a 3 jaw puller to remove the pto. The bearings outer casing came off. You will still need to remove the set screws.

Sometimes parts stores will loan or rent pullers. Is it safe to use a slide hammer without damaging the crank bearings or casing? If it is (within reason) then a three jaw puller or a bearing spreader on the pulley and a slide hammer adapter. There is no way to use a pusher bolt while the pully is assembled.

I cut the triangular spring steel plate and the clutch button off so that the center of the shaft is exposed in order to use a puller, but I don’t want to destroy the crank (or the PTO pulley) if using a puller would do so with the collar still tight on the bearing.

I tried whacking the pulley forward with a brass drift and a hammer, and it’s a bit looser, but isn’t budging much.

First, you didn't mention about the other set screws. Have you worked on getting them out? It would help things along if they were.

Second, they are not Torx set screws,they are ALLEN screws (six sided). Your best bet is to make sure all the crud is out of the holes and the sockets of the screws so that the wrench completely seats in them . Poke with a wire or a pick and use compressed air and blow out the holes. Then soak the holes with holes with PB blaster for a few days. You can stick a Q-Tip in the hole to act as a wick to keep the Blaster damp. Get yourself a good quality Allen wrench that is not rounded off on the end and fits snuggly in the socket of the screw. Tighten the screw a little first, then loosten, then tighten, etc. Just keep working them. If no joy, Blast them again for a few days and try again.
If you can get all the other screws out, the broken one may relax and give up the broken piece. Don't forget, there are two screws in each hole (total of six).

Spring plate is definitely bettered sacrificed than a crank bearing or engine case. Smart move. :beerchug:

I used a bearing spreader set up to remove both the pully and the bearing, but I did have all the set screws out. I gently used a slide hammer on the pulley, which seemed no more destruction then pounding with a hammer and drift. Then the bearing spreader and pusher bolt on the bearing.

It also helps to put a pin punch in the set screw head using the correct size to contact the bottom of the hole, but not damaging the hex that you need to put the Allen wrench in, then smack the punch smartly with a good sized hammer, this helps loosen the set screw.
OR one can use an impact driver with the proper size allen wrench installed in the driver, and striking it with a hammer, turns and loosens it at the same time. :beerchug:

Impact drivers were an essential tool for working on motorcycles in the old days. At least until you could afford to change out all the slot and Philips screws to Allen head. Still have two in the tool box that see active duty.

Sorry guys, I should have specified - they’re all stripped at this point. The reason that there’s a Torx bit stuck in one of the set screw holes is that I attempted to remove that particular set screw by pounding a long Torx bit into the already-stripped screw and use that Torx bit to try to back it out.

Like I said before, 3 jaw puller, you already removed the PTO button, you will not break the pulley, be aware when it breaks free the pulley will fly off.. so be careful.

times 2 here.
Whitworth screw heads,
limey bikes, warm beer,
Lucas electrical, prince of darkness :biggrin2:

My primary concern is not gouging the crank with the set screw on the bearing collar. If there isn’t too much risk of that, time to crank away on the puller :Boxer:

The pulley will very likely pop off well before the bearing. Then you have access to the bearing set screw and lock collar. Get those off and put the puller on the bearing.

There is no set screws on the bearing collar. The collar locks the bearing onto crank by concentric cam action. The set screws tightens the PTO pulley against the bearing. With the puller, you are removing the PTO and the bearing that is locked into crank with the collar.

The first set of Allen screws in the hole are tapered to a point. If everything is assembled correctly, the point of the screw actually decends behind the bearing. That is what keeps the pulley from sliding off the bearing. The second set of screws jam/lock the first set in place.

All of the PTO's I've taken off have a set screw with a nut tightened on the concentrec collar that had to be removed before I could loosen the ring (clockways if I remember correctly). Ive had stuck stripped screws before, I just picked up a good set of cobalt drills and drilled it out. The key is slow speed, and lots of oil to keep the drill cool. I used thread cutting oil from the plumbing department of local hardware store. I took my time and didnt rush it and had it off in no time.

I did have to use a lenght of hard wood applied to back side of the pto to get it to seperate from the bearing. In the end the only danage was to the set screw that I pulled out using an easy out. one of the few times an easy out actually worked.

Well gents, sorry for the long delay, but tonight I FINALLY got the darn pulley off!! The advice to throw a puller on there and let ‘er eat was sage indeed. I don’t know how much time or money I spent on crappy cobalt bits or broken carbide ones but those set screws are just not going to cooperate with me...unless perhaps I put the pulley in a drill press vise...but that’s a job for another day.

The K241 disassembly and rebuild can now proceed as planned.

Thank you guys so much for all the words of wisdom. I’ll keep this thread updated now that I can finally continue work on this project :beerchug: